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1  DEBATE, MANIFESTATIONS, AND NEWS CONCERNING THE BOOK-SERIES ON HISTORICAL MOSES
- evt. praktisk at kunne læse teksten off-line
¤ myspace.com,  -  25 December 2007  -  thomas, Blog:
More lost knowledge from ancient Egypt

thomass Blog  - Lost knowledge from ancient Egypt

Lost pyramid of the Giza Plateau, hidden chambers in the Great Pyramid, the riddle of the Sphinx, the place of the cross and the skull, and crossing the circle.
- Written by Thomas Roed Jakobsen

And since the first written evidence of distinctive Hebrew, the Gezer calendar, dates back to the 10th century BCE, one cannot exclude, that someone did in fact deliberately incorporate the phonetics of Rosh Tav into Hebrew (Source regarding facts on written Hebrew: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HebrewOrigins_of_Hebrew)
          This leaves the possibility that Moses and/or other Jews did infact have this information, and knowing its immense symbolic meaning, incorporated the skull and the cross in to the very phonetic fabric of the Hebrew language.
          But could Moses or other Jews really have had this very special - presumably secret - knowledge about the initiatory nature of the Giza Plateau ? Maybe yes. In recent years the author Ove von Spaeth has claimed in his books that Moses was indeed a historical person and a highly educated Egyptian prince, and a prospective heir to the Egyptian throne. A pharaoh in spe! See http://www.moses-egypt.net/book-series/moses_survey_en.asp

Thomas Roed Jakobsen, -  http://www.myspace.com/roedmario/blog/341183886  - (25.Dec.2007)

¤ Interest Group for The Ove von Spaeth Papers, - 26 January 2009  -  info: 
His books discussed at universities around the world

Interest Group for The Ove von Spaeth Papers - http://www.facebook.com

                    Merete Gundersen wrote - January 26, 2009 at 10:09pm    - Hi, Martin,
I think that Ove von Spaeth's books contain knowledge much beyond the ordinary. His papers are groundbreaking new research which is known worldwide.
          At many universities around the world the contents of his books are being discussed and young researchers in particular are very concerned about his new findings.
          Thanks for Martin's invitation to present an issue for the Discussion board. I am giving it a thought and will soon bring a message.

Merete Gundersen, author, lecturer, specializing in SIQ-The Spiritual Intelligence
www.siqintelligens.dk  -  http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=45399163234#/group.php?gid=37417830597  -  (26.Jan.2009)

¤ amazon.co.uk  -  August 2008  -  inter-textual and librarian references:
The Exodus Chronicles

           http://www.amazon.co.uk

The Exodus Chronicles - 'Chronicles: Beliefs, Legends and Rumors from Antiquity regarding the Exodus and the Jews from Egypt', -  
by Marianne Luban    (aperback - Aug.2008 - Buy new: £11.18  - 2nd edition: New and Revised
Copyright 2003 and 2008 by Marianne Luban

Excerpt – "... Danish scholar named Ove von Spaeth. 98 He made some astronomical ..." - Read
… to Moses came from an independent Danish scholar named Ove von Spaeth
... While Ove von Spaeth may argue that this pharaoh's daughter was …

•  Paperback: 268 pages  • Publisher: Pacific Moon Publications (Aug 2008)
•  Language English   • ISBN-10: 0972952438   • ISBN-13: 978-0972952439

•  12 of 14 people found the following review helpful
•  5.0 out of 5 stars An important new book on The Exodus, 26 April 2003

•  Marianne Luban's important new book, "The Exodus Chronicles," is a tremendous step forward in researching and understanding the Exodus.
•  Working from ancient sources and records, Ms. Luban brings together an extraordinary variety of views and opinions about the Exodus and presents them in a clear and interesting way. "The Exodus Chronicles" provides a fresh and illuminating look at what is perhaps the most dramatic moment in both the Bible and the history of ancient Egypt. The information and insights in this comprehensive book should inspire a new round of interest in The Exodus by scholars and general readers alike. Highly recommended.

Books on Amazon: See more items:
 
-  "Historie og konstruktion: Festskrift til Niels Peter Lemche i anledning af 60 års fødselsdagen den 6. september 2005", (Forum for Bibelsk Eksegese) by Mogens Müller, Thomas L Thompson and Niels Peter Lemche (2005)
Excerpt - "... Her má Ove von Spaeths teorier i en række bøger …"  - Read More

-  "Tycho Brahe's Urania Titani: Et digt om Sophie Brahe" (Renaessancestudier) by Peter Zeeberg (1994) 
Excerpt - "... blevet rekonstrueret of Ove von Spaeth, der i mange år har forsket ..." - Read More

amazon.co.uk  -  http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/search?ie=UTF8&tag=realintegrity-21&index=aps&keywords=Ove+von+Spaeth   -  (Aug.2008)

       
Sidetop
¤ Opinion, 21 September 2008  -  debating history: 
The doubts on Jerusalem as the chosen cultic place


Historical conflicts about being the chosen sacred site


In the journal "Israel Opinion" (September, 2008), Dr. Mordechai Kedar, The Dept of Arabic Studies at Bar-llan University wrote an article: "The myth of al-Aqsa" (cf. publishing on the Web 09.15.08, 00:47  http://nicedeb.wordpress.com/2008/06/18/zionist-appears-on-al-jazeera-says-jerusalem-belongs-to-the-jews-period/), with also this information:
                    "... In 682 CE, Abd Allah ibn al-Zubayr rebelled against the Islamic rulers in Damascus, conquered Mecca, and prevented pilgrims from reaching Mecca for the Hajj. Abd al-Malik, the Umayyad Calif, needed an alternative site for the pilgrimage and settled on Jerusalem which was then under his control. Califs of the Ummayad dynasty invented many "traditions" upholding the value of Jerusalem ..."

          However, Kedar's text includes also some substance of a more politically colored targets, and a debating reader wrote concerning the article - and also drew attention to the fact that no religion has a spotless record in the past - that:
                    "... The Jews stole it (Jerusalem) from the Jebusites after they broke the covenant between Abraham and the Jebusites - an agreement that the Jews would not take Jerusalem from them! ..."

          Already, from Ove von Spaeth's book-series, "Assassinag Moses", I got to knew some essence of these historical facts - and it is described very, very well there, in my opinion.
          So it would be appropriate to present the following text from Ove von Spaeth's book, "The Secret Religion", on the Web - contributing to a better focus on what often is wrongly considered myths and illusion in the history of some of the most widespread religions:
 

Religions' myths concerning their history

"... A conflict was still present at the time of Jesus concerning that Moses, according to the Bible, had designated Mount Gerizim (in the current Samaria) as the main center of the religion and country, while later priests and also the king David and king Solomon selected the Mount Zion. Also this appears when The Gospel of John tells (4:21) about a woman at Jacob's well near Gerizim, who had doubts about whether Jerusalem or Gerizim was the right sacred place, and that Jesus replied to her:
                    "... the hour cometh, and now is, when ye shall neither in this mountain nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father ... etc."
          A thousand years after King David's time the priesthood of Jerusalem appears continuing to be the prominent group, and Jesus opposed the religious monopoly of these probable descendants of the old powerful priestly clan. With their success during Herod the Great the priests are still called - from the early high priest Zadok's name - the Sadduceans.
          In Jerusalem the priest's religious monopoly of power was thus sustained at time of Jesus' time, when he was in strong opposition to the Sadduceans (in addition to the High Priest, who even was a Hasmodean). - Cf. Jesus' parable about "the poor servant who buried his pound (i.e., belief and knowledge) instead of making useful, and multiply it". Jesus has, in contrast, highlighted the Samaritan ("the merciful Samaritan" etc.) who seemed to have better maintained "the right legacy".
          The hidden conflict of Gerizim vs. Zion is in principle similar to the later hidden change of placement by moving Jesus' birthplace Bethlehem, 7 km from Nazareth in the north, down to the second Bethlehem, referred to as "David's city", 19 km south of Jerusalem. About when this was included in the text, is not known. Before 325 AD many Christians might have focused less on where the site was - and yet, they had in the northern city of these Bethlehem-s build the biggest Christian church in the entire Palestine of that time (ca. 2008 this church's enormous mosaic floor was excavated). But focus was changed after the year of 325 when Helena, the mother of Emperor Constantine the Great, had carried out that a certain cave - previously used by an Adam-cult in Bethlehem in Judea - now was to be "the cave where Jesus was born".
          In weekly magazine "al Qahira" ('MENA'), 5th August 2003, published by the Egyptian Ministry of Culture, the author Ahmad Mohammad Arafa referenced to the of "Jerusalem's holy status" in Islam: according to Quran sura 17:1 the Prophet Mohammed went on his journey during the night, from the holy masjada, 'pray place, mosque', (in Mecca) to al aqsa, 'the farthest' (near Medinah). Not one word about Jerusalem, which is not mentioned at all in the entire Quran. Islamic sites of prayer were found only in Mecca and Jatrib (Medina).
          Only decades after his death Mohammed got supporters in Palestine, and they did not make Jerusalem but Ramlah being the capital, and only as long as 50 years after Mohammed - especially because of foreign policy - Jerusalem got its first mosque. This was already to be read in "Kitab al-Maghazi", which is the among the Muslims always recognized book written by the famous Islamic historian and geographer al-Waqidi (747-823 AD).
          In modern-day Jerusalem the visiting Christians are taking a walk in order to follow how "Jesus was walking" on a road later claimed to be his route, however, it was built 100 years after Jesus. The Temple's removal og the destruction of Jerusalem in the year 70 was the first decisive push to spread Christianity. - If the religious center, which is the Mount Zion to Jews, Christians and Islamists, is not the place designated by Moses, the site may well have symbolic importance in the religions - but unforeseeable prospects, when taken historical literally. ..."

(quoted source: Ove von Spaeth's "The Secret Religion" ("Assassinating Moses", Volume 4), Copenhagen, 2004, p. 108).

Biorn Andersen, MA and Lecturer in Literature and Linguistic Science at the University of Copenhagen; Journalist DJF; former Programme Editor at the Danish National Television,  - biorn@mail.dk,  - (21.Sep.2008)

¤ youtube.com,  -  22 January 2008  -  comments:
There is no such thing as a 'chosen people'

www.youtube.com

1. Comments (35) - YouTube
www.youtube.com/all_comments?v=8ewQrObgWTsCached
You +1'd this publicly. Undo
I suggest we take this specific issue off the forum, as it is very complex. 00SDH00  22 Jan 2008 .... but  You should read the 5 books of Ove von Spaeth about Moses. ...

Abrahams Bok
1:42
•  When you finally are able to free yourself from this brainwash you will understand that there is no such thing on earth as a "chosen people". All people are equal, nobody is chosen. You should read the 5 books of Ove von Spaeth about Moses. Very interesting reading. Gives you a broad understanding of the background of Islam, Jewism and Christianity.

MamaWortsh, -  Added: 22 Jan 2008  -  Views: 503  -  http://www.youtube.com/all_comments?v=8ewQrObgWTs  -  (22.Jan.2008)

       
Sidetop
¤ Correspondence, 19 February 2009  -  comments and info:   
Exciting and amazing piece of research work

Concerning Ove von Spaeth's articles about the Knights Templar, for example.:
"The Knights Templar knowledge from Egypt" and "The Knights Templar and Moses' hidden treasure": http://www.moses-egypt.net/zenith-files_en/e-books_group2_en.asp  following comments might be of some interest:
_


After the reading, first and foremost: Thank you so much. Wow, how exciting it is when reading a fantastic piece of research work. I am very, very positive about what I've read here. It is extremely interesting.
          The banking system established by the Knights Templar is mentioned, and it is simply as exciting and groundbreaking, both in time of the Knights Templar and with the threads throughout history - that even further details would be very welcome.

          Regarding Moses and the Jerusalem temple archives' documents about his design of the ancient crane machines - I got the idea when I read it that it might be connected to the unresolved mystery of how on earth the stones on were stacked on the pyramids. I have read scores of theories. But none has probably definitely come through. In other words, in connection with Moses it would be interesting with even more information about the crane machines.
          Also harvesting machine in antiquity is mentioned. For me as a reader, it would be interesting to know in some extra detail precisely how it worked.

          I am very pleased with the article's view concerning the importance of Bernard of Clairvaux. I worked a lot with studying his character and personality, when I was at the university.
          Knighthood and Charlemagne - yes, it was more firmly anchored under this king. But in my opinion, the first steps to knighthood were taken during the reign of Charles Martel ('the Hammer') in connection with the defense against the Muslim invasion via Spain. I am referring to the battle of Poitiers.

          The ancient tradition of other layers of messages contained in a text, concerns also the Iliad as an example. It is really exciting reading such as the rhythmic pattern in certain songs. However, there is a consideration, we have to make in connection with Homer. There is still a common view that Homer himself could hardly have written both the Iliad and Odyssée. The language is so different in time that it don't seem to be the same author physically. But he may have adapted earlier texts of different origins.
          The usual view is that the texts were handed over through generations - with the changes that always happen "along the way". And the very memory was based on that a singer attached his remembrance to the hexameter structure and the repetition - until finally the 24 songs were recorded in writing. The songs also have varying lengths and often end in a strange way - this is according to some researchers connected with the fact that the copies on which we base our Iliad and Odyssey, were written on scrolls. When there was more space on the ancient scrolls, the song was over.

Jens Jørgensen, MA historian, formerly headmaster, Slagelse - jens@slagelse.... - (19.Feb.2009)


(Webmaster:  cf. Ove von Spaeth's additional info and comment, below):

¤ Telegraph.co.uk -  9 August 2012  -  references and comments:
Myths of Judaism hence Christianity and Islam

          My Telegraph » Blogs » amuhd » Understanding Other Cultures

Myths of Judaism hence Christianity and Islam  - August 9th, 2012 10:12 
By amuhd      -   Refreshed for HMB.

The assumption that monotheism is intellectually more sophisticated and thus more advanced an ideology than polytheism has been broadly accepted in the West. But we have now examined the possible flaws and contradictions in the Abrahamic Faiths to indicate that the Abrahamic ideologies are as mythical as that of most of the polytheist religions. In fact, it has been shown that Moses and Judaism have been based on myths and misinformation and possibly evolved from the ancient Egyptian pagan religion of Aten and or the cult of pagan Babylonian Enuma Elish.
 
33 Comments  •   Comment no. 9:
gru_mpy
08/11/2012 10:21 AM

Who was Moses? This is an interesting read for the seekers after truth:
http://www.moses-egypt.net/book1/moses1-cap1_en.asp

amuhd, - Telegraph.co.uk, - Blogs - Understanding Other Cultures - http://my.telegraph.co.uk/abdulmuhd/date/2012/08/
( http://telegraph.co.uk/abdulmuhd/amuhd/1020/myths-of-judaism-hence-christianity-and-islam/ )  -  (9.Aug.2012)

 
¤ wikipedia on atheism - 25 March 2010  - editing:
Referring to Ove von Spaeth's site

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Atenism

Talk:Atenism  -  From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
edit] Moses
The Discovery Channel advocated a position that Moses was an Atenist Prince, and rebel son of Ramses (and thus not a Jew from the rushes) who killed his brother, the sub-King, whom would be the Pharoah who drown in the Red Sea... (and thus not a real Pharoah) ... Should this be integrated into the article and sourced as an origin for Judaism?
          This is a very interesting theory with a fair amount of evidence (including one of the psalms found engraved inside a tomb) and doesn't seem to be covered at wikipedia, as far as I can see. I'm going to have a look at the evidence and come back when I've done enough research. If anyone has any ideas or sources about this could they comment here and I'll keep it on my watchlist. thanks, --Sachabrunel 16:25, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
          It sounds interesting and I like it since it at least doesn't go into the "Moses didn't exist" idea. I sounds a little fishy to be because, I might be wrong, but I think it's based off of some second century AD historian who didn't get his history correct in other places.
          I don't beleive that Exodus ever mentions the pharoh ever actually leading the effort to catch Moses though. While a bit of an apologetics book (though I don't understand what's so wrong with defending what one beleives with evidence since everyone else can do it) Kenneth A. Kitchen (Egyptologist) gives what I think is the best evidence of the Exodus and he places it around 1260 BC I think.
          That's too late for Moses to be an Atenist but certainly allows enough space for Akhenaten to be influenced by the Hebrews. Kitchen's book seems to be part of a dueling triad with Finkelstein's and Dever's books on the same subject but I've read all three and I would have to say that the latter two overlook quite a bit of evidence. While not being an expert in the rest of the Old Testament, being an Egyptologist does give him an edge over the other two regarding Israel in Egypt and Moses.69.254.76.77 (talk) 05:40, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
It is speculative. If any more than Ove von Spaeth mentions it, it might deserve mentioning. Till then Ove von Spaeth's site. Rursus dixit. (mbork3!) 12:56, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

[edit] Wikiproject: Egyptian Religion
          I am proposing a Wikiproject to enhance articles on Egyptian Religion.... please check it out and see if you want to add yourself.
[edit] Henotheism?
          The label of monotheism is not universally accepted and claimed to be rather Freud's interpretation. This newsgroup message suggests henotheism or monolatry. The message is written by a specialist and contains references. Pavel Vozenilek 14:29, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Rursus dixit, - 12:56, 25 March 2010 (UTC)  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Atenism  - (25.Mar.2010)

¤ opinions, grahamhancock.com/phorum, September 2008  -  research data: 
Invented history behind the name Moses?

http://www.grahamhancock.com/phorum/ is a discussion board for the most eclectic and (so far as possible) unlimited range of dissenting history.
_

Re: Literate Moses?   -  Author: martinpescatore (87.55.32.---)  -  Date: 23-Sep-08 07:36

legionromanes wrote:  >> (Quote:)  - The name "Moses" comes from a root meaning "take out," because Moses was taken out of the river (Ex. 2:10). Some modern scholars point out that the root M-S-S in Egyptian means "son of" as in the name Ramases (son of Ra), but it is worth noting that Moses' name in Hebrew is M-Sh-H, not M-S-S. - According to one Jewish source, Pharaoh's daughter actually named him Minios, which means "drawn out" in Egyptian, and the name Moshe (Moses) was a Hebrew translation of that name, just as a Russian immigrant named Ivan might change his name to the  English equivalent, John.

martinpescatore answers:  When you refuse to acknowledge the value of correct liguistic data in a book with a scientific paper of Griffiths, the great Egyptologist, printed only 55 years ago, - how can it suddenly be non-trustworthy? But how can you then use the Bible as evidence when its authors have been dead for more than 2,000 years? In other words: You're really outdated in this context!
          Now, quoting historian Ove von Spaeth's book "The Suppressed Record" (1999, updat. reprint 2004) based on his highly professionally, meticulously research during more than 25 years:

"... In Hebrew, Moses is called Moshe, which according to the biblical text, word for word, is understood to play on the assumption that Pharaoh's Daughter named him thus, "because she had drawn him out of the water".
          The biblical text version by Ezra and his helpers is clear concerning the name Moses, because because of the well-known fact that the claimed Hebrew play on words is grammatically impossible - and the originally Egyptian name, Moses (mosis) cannot be turned into Hebrew.
          Almost two thousand years ago, Josephus, although Jewish, did not accept the impression the Bible apparently promotes either. He says in several of his works, e.g. "Antiquitates" (2:228) and "Contra Apionem" (1:226) that the name is Egyptian. 70 years prior to Josephus, Philo, the Egyptian-Jewish philosopher, wrote in his biography of Moses, "De Vita Mosis" (1:17), also that the name is Egyptian. According to both writers the name belonged so distinctly to this culture that they tried - though less correctly - to prove that the name was based on an Egyptian pun. And they showed in detail which Egyptian elements they believed the name contained.
          The Egyptologists and historians specializing in Egypt, e.g. James Henry Breasted, Alan H. Gardiner, Gwyn J. Griffiths, and Eduard Meyer etc. early have confirmed that the name Moses was not Hebrew but stems from Egyptian usage.
          In addition, the 'Hebrew Dictionary' ("Jüdisches Lexikon", the Herlitz & Kirschner's editions, still highly valid and recognized, and never contested. More than 230 Jewish writers and scholars participated in this important reference work. Each article signed.) - says on the subject "Moses as a name" that the biblical influenced explanation concerning the claimed Hebrew name Moshe (Moses) should mean 'he who is being drawn out of the water', is a misunderstanding:
                    "... it is completely impossible to harmonize the active form of the Hebrew word - as Moshe (Moses) can only mean 'he who draws out' ...".
          The Hebrew play on words in the Bible has been created from meshitihua, meaning 'he draws out' - where consequently "he" cannot indicate that it was Pharaoh's Daughter who drew him out of the water. Although this, as well as the fact that the name is Egyptian, is common knowledge to Hebrew students - it is not reflected in general in the biblical translations or in the history of religion.
          In other words - the Hebrew biblical text includes an impossible play on words on the name Moses, all of which means that this cannot have been the idea of the original narrative. On the contrary, the situation indicates that Pharaoh's Daughter had ceremonially given the boy the same pharaoh-name as that of her father and later her husband, i.e. Tuth-mosis, of which this purely Egyptian name Moses (mosis, i.e. 'child') is the last part.
          This abbreviated form - which was common usage in Egypt - was the one used by this "Son of Pharaoh's Daughter", though not until later at a strategic opportunity - according to Manetho, the Egyptian historian, in Alexandria, with access to all important ancient Egyptian source material.
          - To conclude: - Pharaoh's Daughter is claimed to have named the child Moses based on a Hebrew play on words, i.e. "I drew him out of the water" - which is a grammatical impossibility concerning the Moshe (Moses) of the Hebrew Bible. Also it implies the absurd claim that Pharaoh's Daughter could speak Hebrew - and leaves the impression that Moses was a Hebrew name, although it was actually a well-known Egyptian name. ..."

          - These are the data from Ove von Spaeth (cf. also: www.moses-egypt.net)

martinpescatore, (87.55.32.---)  -  http://www.grahamhancock.com/phorum/  - (23.Sep.2008)

¤ Trianglen Second-hand  -  summer 2012 -  catalogue list:
Read it before Dan Brown!

Spaeth, Ove von :             The Suppressed Record, - Assassinating Moses 1
238 pages booklet with side flaps.  C.A. Reitzel 1999      175.00     READ IT BEFORE DAN BROWN !

Spaeth, Ove von :             The Secret Religion, - Assassinating Moses 4
367 pages booklet with side flaps.  C.A. Reitzel 2004      175.00     READ IT BEFORE DAN BROWN !

Spaeth, Ove von :             Prophet and Unknown Genius, - Assassinating Moses 5
271 pages booklet with side flaps.  C.A. Reitzel 2004      175.00     READ IT BEFORE DAN BROWN !

Trianglen Second-hand Bookshop, - Trianglen, DK-2100 Copenhagen, -
http://www.sirich.dk/modules/butik/oversigt.asp?dummy=0&genre=non-fiktion&undergenre=2&medie=bog&start=300   -  (summer,2012)

 
¤ Fact-list  -  2 July 2012  -  historical overview:
Researchers attacking on Moses' identity and work

Experts' often contradictory and perhaps religious interests
          Concretely attempted annihilation of Moses' identity and work had taken place mainly in three rounds during the nearly 3,400 years from his time until now. Scholarly it had serious impact. Moreover, the Moses research was, of course, difficult to carry out on the basis of a narrow sociological-political history method - and was split between ideological preferences by several scientific areas (subjects). .
          The scientific, but sometimes contradictory and even with religious interests inside text critical research, and in philology, history, science, and theology history seemed to inhibit themselves by prejudice towards more extensive research on the historical Moses.

          When Egyptologists have assisted historians and theologians' biblical research - and here having had to use a material colored by biblical perception under those conditions where Moses' existence has been eroded, - it is understandable that on this already decided assumed background there could be seen no Egyptian traces of Moses.
          The Egyptian priests' special curse on Moses and the apparent execution of him were meant to destroy his identity all according to Rabbinical Writings - this seemed in some peculiar way to have come true. The reduction or destruction of the real Moses has actually been car¬ried out by three major "attacks"- with one in each of these epochs:
          - The first time it took place in Egypt where Moses got his identity destroyed (including the destruction of inscriptions and statues) carried out by enemies among the priesthood and at the court of political reasons of power. The hitherto undetected and therefore missing tracks on Moses - especially due to a too late dating of the epoch - causes many res¬earchers arguing that Moses is a myth figure. .
          - The second time done by the Jews, especially Ezra, often for new political reasons with the religion. Other Jewish editors carried out additions or changes in the Hebrew Bible both before and during antiquity. (Later a secure system against changes was introduced).
          - The third time it is made by many contemporary scientists and theology schools, which - often from the confusion of lost or corrupted data but also by ignorance or denigration of known data - claim that Moses is non-existent as both Israelite leader and Pentateuch author. Scientists then claim that the Moses texts were written by a dozen writers up to 1,000 years after Moses' time.

          The French philosopher Roland Barthes identified the tendency for that the reader "desires" the author. Since Moses seems to have strengthened his new religion by highlighting Yahweh as originator of several great achievements a - perhaps consequent - the missing supply of personal information about Moses has increased the interest in him as the writer behind the Pentateuch. But it has also made it extra hard to identify him.
          Changing "fashion trends"by the views on history being influenced from dialectic materialism and the inspiration from Freud have taken place in several research fields of history and theology and have hereby caused a wish of avoiding accusations of worshipping heroes and of super humans or of fundamentalism. Such researchers have then also neglected the importance which civilization's key personalities through time have had to history.
          For example, Julius Caesar conquered 800 cities and 25 nations and was culturally a style creating writer and had great astronomical knowledge, - and Leonardo da Vinci was both a genius painter and an advanced inventor, - and Mozart, when 5 years old, composed music, - and British writer George Bernhard Shaw wrote up to ten thousand letters and cards in addition to all his plays ... etc. - all this, when older documentation later has disappeared, will then by literature accountants be claimed as being "unreliable myths”.

          Moses, now removed as a person and made to be "an invention"has to have existed once and has been something and done something that was given to people as inheritance and ownership. Otherwise, history with extraordinary and historically verifiable data - in the Bible, the Rab¬binical Writings, and by ancient authors and of the tradition - could not at all have appeared.
Already ancient Greek writer Euphemerus (ca. 300's BC) claimed that the gods in the myths had once been great men; and also some modern anthropologists, ethnographers and archaeologists consider that myth heroes in various countries probably have really existed in history as people of whom the original material simply has not yet been found.
          The stela of Pharaoh Merneptah (1224-1210 BC) on his victories in Canaan has an inscription: Israel is beaten. It proves the fact that Israel existed and is not a late "invention"- and indicates exodus already had taken place.

Neglected references in the biblical texts
          Some literary theories demonstrate being insufficient when it is claimed it was another author or even were several other authors who wrote the Pentateuch part of the Bible. But whoever may have authored the texts, the presented facts, findings, and data per se demonstrate that the core of the contents at least is far more historically accurate than assumed in many hypotheses from modern theology and religion.
          It is stated many times in the Pentateuch that it is Moses himself who is the author, so if later amendments and additions may have been made it does not in any way prevent that Moses wrote the basic texts. . Textual amendments and possible replacements of older expressions were by the German influenced theological research school and its later branches were - as mentioned – interpreted as: that all of the text must therefore come from the more modern expression's own time.
          The pharaoh now known as Tuthmosis II is mentioned in ancient Rabbinical Writings as "stepfather of Moses" and "husband of Pharaoh's daughter". Ancient Church historian Eusebius of Caesarea states ("Evangelica Praeparatio", IX) that this pharaoh was the oldest known case of a suffering from elephantiasis.
          The mummy of Pharaoh Tuthmosis II was found as late as in 1881 (by Maspero) - his skin still shows signs of a strong affliction resembling elephantiasis - the most severe case ever seen on any royal mummy!

Facts on the Bible/Torah's own references to Moses as the author
          a).  According to the "Proverbs"(25:1) the Judean King Hezekiah had the biblical texts copied and edited and complained about others' earlier interventions with disturbing changes. This event, already at his time (700 BC in the Bible's chronology), confirmed the existence of thus even older biblical texts, - as nobody was able to invent a discovery of alterations in the Bible's oldest texts.

          b).  The Bible's "the Books of the Kings"and "the Books of the Chronicles"is disclosing by the mention of Israelite kings in 900's—600's BC (Including the kings: Asa, Jehoshafat, Azariah, Hezekiah, as well as Amaziah, Joash and David) whether these kings followed the Law (Pentateuch) or were abandoning it - and even at what points. In Wellhausen's opinon the Moses Law was of later date than the prophets, - but he has never refuted what these biblical texts show about themselves, namely that they existed at 900 BC as incorporated tradition.

          c).  In the Law of Moses appear later deposits from several other Near Eastern traditions with brutal and primitive methods of punishment and some oversized animal sacrifices. This too has been taken as proof that Moses and his basic text has not existed. - But later biblical prophets, for example, "Jeremiah"(23:36) and "Hosea"(6:6) point out precisely such distortions in the original text. By this the existence of an even earlier, textual "canonized"tradition this is recognized. . d). The Bible mentions that "Deuteronomy"("The 5th Book of Moses”) was found - during a repair of Solomon's temple - deposited in the wall, i.e. walled in, and that it took place in King Josiah's time, an event usually determined at 622 BC.
          - Many researchers claim this information to be a "fabrication"written after 400 BC. While more moderate claim that the text just may be from 622 BC - however, all of them without knowing that it was an even older custom form Egypt to wall in documents at the temples' foundation: - An inscription by Tuthmosis III from ca. 1460 BC, about the repair of a then one thousand year old temple in Denderah, mentions a discovery of a walled in old manuscript of goatskin from Pharaoh Pepi's time 2200 BC (and known already with Egyptologists Brugsch and Naville).
          - The contents of the above mentioned walled in biblical texts therefore must be from a time before the Temple of Solomon (generally considered built approx. 975 BC) - and thus from the time when the text's classical Hebrew language was being still in general use - a fact ignored in research.

          e).  According to the Bible, the Rabbinical Writings, Arabic texts, and Jewish traditions, the priest Ezra (in the 400's BC) edited some parts of the Bible which he rewrote with revised spelling and a later Hebrew lettering. His own writings include the Bible's "Books of the Chronicles"to which approximately 20 sources of information are seen in use. For his efforts he was named in the Jewish scriptures also "the little Moses”. In other words, both the tradition and the Bible inform us that the older biblical texts at that point of time were well-established in practice. None of these things have been possible to disprove.

          f).   At least five texts in the Pentateuch refer to that Moses wrote the books' texts. In 20 out of 27 chapters in the Bible's "Leviticus"("The 3rd Book of Moses”) are expressing that the text was Yahweh's words spoken to Moses and that he should communicate them to the people; and this is also a fact "Numbers"("The 4th Book of Moses") more than 50 times. Further, there are nine respectively eight similar texts in the "2nd and 5th Book of Moses”.
          - Moreover, many passages in the rest of the Bible refer to Moses as Pentateuch's author: in "the Book of Joshua”, "the Book of Judges”, "the Books of the Kings"and ”the Book of Malachi”. People like David, Daniel, Ezra, and Nehemiah - all refer to Moses as the author in question.
          - Furthermore, a parallel situation exists in the New Testament when Jesus refers - as well as Mark, Luke, and John all refer - to Moses as the author of the Pentateuch. Jesus also in directly speech recognizes that Moses was the writer ("Mark" 10:3-412:26 and "John" 5:46-47). Moreover, the Sadducees recognized Moses' authorship ("Mark" 12:18-19). (But if the "non-Moses-hypothesis" is accepted, those researchers and theologians who are faithful Christians, ironically, must consider references by Jesus on the Moses-authorship as fiction).

          Obviously, the Bible cannot confirm the Bible, i.e. itself, as historical evidence but the many indications can be evaluated rather than dismissed. Researchers cannot disprove the sources but this does not prevent many of these people requiring the strongest evidence from their opponents' acceptance of the sources.
          When dominating theological schools often claim Moses as being nonexistent, such should be naturally be disputed by the fact that "the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence”.

          In my books about the historical Moses and Egypt, it is through the involved disciplines identified as concretely possible that strange myth-like episodes in the ancient texts in reality - though not necessarily every word - could have taken place in the real world.

Ove von Spaeth,  Copyright © 2012  (backtrack © 1998)  -  www.moses-egypt.net

In this short overview of archaeological and textual sources with traces of the historical Moses - was used various texts and data from the author's book-series "Assassinating Moses".

 
       
Sidetop
¤ Blog, JOTC - 15 December 2008  -  considerations: 
Extremely intriguing - this stuff is so cool!

Keeping up with JOTSC - http://tishadeutsch.blogspot.com/ - Monday, December 15, 2008
_

Monday, December 15, 2008
About Moses ...
          I don't know if anyone else is interested in this topic, but (you may have noticed : ) I have been immersed (during my spare time) in reading about scientific evidence for a creator, historical documentation of the events of the Bible, verification that Christianity is not being a spin-off religion.....etc. - Again, I will say fascinating. And, I stand in even more awe of our God who has made Himself clear to those who have a desire to know Him.
          Turns out, Moses is a controversial man, historically speaking. Non-believers who offer answers for atheism apparently like to quip "there is no historical evidence in ancient Egyptian record for existence of Moses". Therefore, concluding, God couldn't exist, heck, even Moses is fictional.
          Now, that just made me curious. What about Moses, Egyptian record of his life, and the significant events surrounding it?

          This, http://www.moses-egypt.net/book1/moses1-cap1_en.asp  is an extremely intriguing portion of a book on the subject, written from a scientific, astronomical, non religious point of view.

          I wanted to pass it along to you. Just in case you might enjoy it.....
 This stuff is SO COOL!

Tisha Deutsch, - Posted by Tisha at 9:44 PM  -  Colorado, USA, - Blogger since Sept. 2006 - Profile views 1.403 -  http://tishadeutsch.blogspot.com/2008/12/about-moses.html   -  (15.Dec.2008)

¤  facebook.com/groups  -  27 Februrary 2012  -  merete.gundersen:
Regarding Ove von Spaeth's exploration and discoveries

Merete Gundersen, - Direktør for Livskildens Forlag
http://www.facebook.com/merete.gundersen

1.
Merete Gundersen
27-Feb-2012 11:19  -  http://www.facebook.com/groups/45399163234/
her kan du komme i dialog om emnet Moses og beslægtede emner:

Interest Group for The Ove von Spaeth Papers
Interest Group for The Ove von Spaeth Papers on History and Knowledge: - Rediscovery, Insight, Renewal.
•  Communication and debate on Ove von Spaeth's exploration and discoveries concerning his research on the historical Moses, the Egyptian legacy, ancient sciences and astronomy.

Interessegruppen for Ove von Spaeth-skrifterne om Historie og Videnskab: - Genopdagelse, indsigt, fornyelse.
•  Udbredelse og debat om Ove von Spaeth's udforskning og opdagelser inden for hans forskning om den historiske Moses, arven fra Egypten, oldtidens videnskaber og astronomi.

2.
Merete Gundersen shared a link.
27-Feb-2012 09:19
-  Min særdeles gode ven Ove von Spaeth har skrevet nogle vidunderlige bøger om Moses, - gå på opdagelse på hans spændende site både på dansk og engelsk:  http://www.moses-egypt.net
- New orientating data presenting Moses as a historical person is here available from Ove von Spaeth's long-term research and expertise:  http://www.moses-egypt.net

People who like this:
Ulla Gerhardt, Martin Gjedde and 5 others: - Frank Olsen, Nicola Lee Engel, Heidi H. Svendsen, Per Åstrup Olsen, Francisca B. Soares, Dorte Moltsen, Sonja Kock, - like this.
http://www.moses-egypt.net/book-series/moses_survey_en.asp

Merete Gundersen, -  http://www.facebook.com/merete.gundersen  - (27.Feb.2012)

 

¤ facebook.com,  -  spring 2012  -  tips and comments:
Egypt and Moses

          http://www.facebook.com

January 25, 2012 - shared Porta's text
          "... The Egyptians, who first proved and found out the effects of the heavens, because they dwelt in the open Champion-fields, where they had continually fair weather, and there were no vapors sent up from the Earth which might hinder their contemplation of Heaven, so that they might continually behold the stars in their brightness, did therefore wholly bestow themselves in the knowledge of heavenly influences.
          And whereas others that were not so diligent as they, stood amazed at the causes of things, these men referred all to the heavens and the stars, that all things took their destiny from them, and that the influence of Heaven bare great sway in all generations and corruptions. And thus observing the motions of the stars to and fro, they wrought many wonderful things, for this was their resolution, that to certain hours and set times, there were answerable certain aspects of superior powers, whereby all things were effected. ..." ~ John Baptist Porta
_ _ _

aruary 16, 2012  -  shared a link on the Pyramid Texts
          Pyramid Texts Online - Library:  www.pyramidtextsonline.com
          Use the Language tools to help you study the Pyramid Texts of Unas. Complete English translation, heiroglyphs, online dictionaries, sign lists, charts, free computer software.
_ _ _

February 16. 2012  -  shared Rudolf Steiner's text
          "... The Egyptian priests were men to whom the physicians of today could not hold a candle. The men of today cannot penetrate into these heights of the spiritual world. Only through the science of the spirit can an idea be formed of what the ancient Chaldean-Egyptian initiates saw. ..." ~ Rudolf Steiner
_ _ _

April 12, 2012  -  shared a link on Ove von Spaeth's book-series
          Ancient information traces contained in Senmut's star map, now revealed in Ove von Spaeth's book-series 'Assassinating Moses' - http://www.moses-egypt.net

Paul Michael Bales,  - http://www.facebook.com/pages/Paul-Michael-Bales/180532342010587  -  (spring,2012)

Sidetop



 
 
2  DISCUSSIONGROUPS & NEWSGROUPS  -  ON THE MOSES-SERIES
- evt. praktisk at kunne læse teksten off-line
¤ SodaHead Opinions,  -  12 February 2012  -  discussions:
Who Inspired the Books of Moses?

SodaHead Opinions - Who Inspired the Books of Moses?

Who Inspired the Books of Moses?
by D.C. Willis  -  Posted February 12, 2012
God inspired the books! (or)  The devil inspired the books! (or) The books were inspired by man’s evil heart!

- -
Bocephus to D.C. Wi... Mar. 2
Why would some one right the story of mosses. What would be the motive??
Da vinchi code is crap and easily disproved . Mosses story is way more epic and older in scope.

- -
D.C. Wi... to Bocephus - Mar. 3
"Why would someone right the story of Moses. What would be the motive??"
          This could be asked about the Epic of Gilgamesh, part of which was used by biblical authors in their writings. The Papyrus of Ani, which was probably used to develop the ten commandments. The Ugarit texts which some of which are found in the Psalms, copied verbatim.
          Most of the Biblical stories were parts of other religions and beliefs throughout the middle east. Why were any of these written? Who knows, Inspiration, boredom, nothing good on TV.
http://www.theology.edu/ugarb...

- -
Flash,aka, Mr.Lightning - Feb. 14
http://www.moses-egypt.net/book1/moses1-cap1_en.asp
It is not the writings of Moses that are evil but human nature is.

- -
D.C. Wi... to Flash, a... - Feb. 14
Thank you for commenting on the poll Flash, aka, Mr.Lightning.
Interesting article you linked. Thanks!

SodaHead Opinions, -  http://www.sodahead.com/living/who-inspired-the-books-of-moses/question-2453553/  -  (12.Feb.2012)

       
Sidetop
¤ tweleve.org/maranatha - 18 July 2009  -  opinions: 
This is a really good page and fits with some clues

http://tweleve.org/maranatha - latest-advanced-hint-clue
_

On History: The Egyptian Star Map and Moses
This is a really good page and fits with some clues ...if anyone still interested ...

Chasnracin, #42 (permalink) - Chasnracin, TweSpace, Expert Twelever, Amethyst - Join Date: Jun 2007 - Location: Ohio - Posts: 1,043  - http://tweleve.org/maranatha/17510-journey-71.html-  -    (18.Jul.2009)

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Thanks Chasn, There is also an interesting link following on from the page that you gave before.
http://www.thirax.dk/artikler/OveSpaeth/Ove21/index-uk.html
Great to read something well researched and expressed, thanks.

Azoth, #43 (permalink) - TweSpace, Good Twelever, Aquamarin,  - Join Date: Oct 2007  -  Posts: 865 -  http://tweleve.org/maranatha/17510-journey-71.html-  -    (18.Jul.2009)

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Ahh thanks... Well I have been researching this for sometime... I have been following up on this man The Suppressed Record - and - Historical lost symbol of the Solomon Key parchment, the lost symbol of Christ - Tikal Mars Orion Pleiades Pyramid star map - Wayne Herschel - ref: The Lost Symbol Dan Brown so I further researched it. It just seems to fit some of the clues from the Maranatha site. regardless, its some good reading...

Chasnracin, #44 (permalink) - Chasnracin, TweSpace, Expert Twelever, Amethyst - Join Date: Jun 2007 - Location: Ohio - Posts: 1,043  - http://tweleve.org/maranatha/17510-journey-71.html-  -  (19.Jul.2009)

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Chasn,  I have been reading the Moses links for most of the day and the articles and books for once are not only apt but spot on. So many points have linked up to Maranatha,  - Thanks.

Azoth, #45 (permalink) - TweSpace, Good Twelever, Aquamarin,  - Join Date: Oct 2007  -  Posts: 865 -  http://tweleve.org/maranatha/17510-journey-71.html  -    (19.Jul.2009)

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Senmut Tomb. - "A characteristic feature of the Senmut ceiling is the astronomically objectionable orientation of the southern panel." The center of this panel is occupied by the Orion-Sirius group, in which Orion appears west of Sirius instead of east. "The orientation of the southern panel is such that the person in the tomb looking at it has to lift his head and face north, not south." "With the reversed orientation of the south panel, Orion, the most conspicuous constellation of the southern sky, appeared to be moving eastward, i.e., in the wrong direction."  /Velikovsky: Worlds In Collision

Tom O' Bedlam, #53 (permalink) - TweSpace, Expert Twelever, TwelevePlus,  Sapphire,   -  http://tweleve.org/maranatha/17510-journey-71.html  -  Join Date: Nov 2006  -  Posts: 1,657    -    (20.Jul.2009)

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Hi Chasn, - The best articles and most believable case is your original link: 
On History: The Egyptian Star Map and Moses  (http://www.moses-egypt.net/star-map/senmut4-history_en.asp).
          I start to get worried when too many conspiracy theories get roped into the picture. Spaeth has many supporters and few critics which is encouraging, so I will go with his ideas for the moment.
          I think that Nibiru and Worlds in collision has been debunked. To my knowledge no eminent physicist supports it so it remains in the realm of myth.

Azoth, #45 (permalink) - TweSpace, Good Twelever, Aquamarin,  - Join Date: Oct 2007  -  Posts: 865 -  http://tweleve.org/maranatha/17510-journey-71.html  -    (20.Jul.2009)

_

>>>I think that Nibiru and Worlds in collision has been debunked. To my knowledge no eminent physicist supports it so it remains in the realm of myth.<<<
          That well may be. However there is no denying the implications of Velikovskys historical source material, and at the end of the day Von Spaeth is leaning on Velikovsky's research quite gratituously, whilst at the same time appearing to debunk it. I would agree he (Velikovsky) has not got the whole of the facts in order, however his take on the Senmut tomb is practically identical to my own understandings of the star-map, i.e. the positioning of Orion-Sirius group.
          Von Spaeth also appears to give credence to similar observations. Have you actually read 'Worlds In Collision', Azoth?

Tom O' Bedlam, #59 (permalink) - TweSpace, Expert Twelever, TwelevePlus, Sapphire,  - Join Date: Nov 2006  - Posts: 1,657  - http://tweleve.org/maranatha/24645-latest-advanced-hint-clue-30th-april-2009-a-6.html   -  (20.Jul.2009)

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          World-axis, Senmut and sky tradition (http://www.moses-egypt.net/star-map/senmut5-world-axis_en.asp).  I think this has got to be the best read off that site... the world axis its connection to the World tree or tree of life ... makes sense..

Chasnracin, #62 (permalink) - Chasnracin, TweSpace, Expert Twelever, Amethyst - http://tweleve.org/maranatha/24645-latest-advanced-hint-clue-30th-april-2009-a-7.html  -  Join Date: Jun 2007 - Location: Ohio - Posts: 1,043  -  (20.Jul.2009)

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Quote: Ove von Spaeth - History and Knowledge: Rediscovery, Insight, Renewal
On History: The Egyptian Star Map and Moses 

astreeturover, #701 (permalink) - TweSpace - Community Guru - TwelevePlus - Benitoite - http://tweleve.org/maranatha/17510-journey-71.html   -  (21.Jul.2009)

¤ freethoughtnation.com  -  4-16 October 2011  -  opinions:
The man the Moses myth is founded on

FREETHOUGHT NATION - presented by Acharya S and TruthBeKnown.com, online since 1995.
Moderators: Tat Tvam Asi, Freethinkaluva22, GodAlmighty, Robert Tulip.
Board index » The Christ Conspiracy, Suns of God & Who Was Jesus? » Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection
_

Are you proposing Draco and Vega as a possible astronomical basis for the "Dragon" and "False Prophet" of Revelation?
          Tat Tvam Asi
, moderator, -

- - -
          Robert Tulip - Post subject: Re: Zep Tepi - Egyptian Creation Myths
          Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 2:52 pm

                    Tat Tvam Asi wrote:  "...Bauval points out that these stars in Ursa minor (beast) and
          Draco (dragon) are mentioned in the pyramid texts, along with Orion and Sirius. It would
          interesting to pin down where these stars are mentioned in relation to what we find in
          revelation about the Beast and Dragon. ..."
The dragon passes its power and throne and authority to the bear in Revelation 13:2, in precise correspondence to the movement of the North Celestial Pole from Thuban in Draco to Polaris in Ursa Minor as marked by the pyramid shafts. Thuban was the pole star for most of the Ages of Taurus and Aries, while Polaris is the Pole Star for most of the Ages of Pisces and Aquarius.
          Orion and Sirius designate the three magi and the star in the east. In the sky, the line from Orion's Belt through Sirius points to Argo, to a group of four stars sitting on the deck of the ship that corresponds to the coffin of Osiris, Noah's Ark and the Manger of Christ. Argo contains the bright star Canopus, thought by some to be the star of Osiris, as shown in the Dendera Zodiac, but neglected due to its invisibility from Europe. It would be interesting to find out if the pyramids have any marker to Canopus in their design.

Robert Tulip, Moderator, - Posts: 502 - Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2009 4:41 pm  -  http://freethoughtnation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=3339&start=30   - (4.Oct.2012) (4.Oct.2010)

- - -
          #  Vallhall - Post subject: Re: Zep Tepi - Egyptian Creation Myths
          Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 2:28 pm

Ove von Spaeth: "Star Tradition from a Mysterious Past. - booklet":
http://www.moses-egypt.net/images/3ovs_en1_star-tradition-from-a-mysterious-past_e-book.pdf

                               Attachment: Worldaxis.JPG [ 60.83 KiB | Viewed 3069 times ]
(Ove von Spaeth:) "... Sight line of the World-axis on Senmut's star map leads from the stars Canopus via Sirius to Lyra at the north. The Senmut map's "mast" with the revolving constellation Meskethiu (Great Bear) which is connecting with Horus and his harpoon. Above, there is placed the star goddess of the Scorpion stars (which in the real sky also is placed exactly here, and thus being near the exposed constellation Cygnus-Swan). ..."

Ove von Spaeth is a very interesting man. He is known for dating and decoding the oldest Egyptian star map. His work on the Senmut star map was published some years ago in Centaurus, a scientific journal devoted to the history of mathematics, science, and technology. It is the journal of the European Society for the History of Science. - Centaurus is known as The International Magazine of the History of Science and Medicine; and, the International Magazine of the History of Mathematics, Science and Technology. - You can get it (dating the Senmut star map) by this link:
http://www.moses-egypt.net/images/dating_the_senmut_star_map.pdf
          He is independently, from this specific scientific acknowledged publication, working on several subjects and theories closely connected. He connects Senmut not only as famous innovative vizier in ancient Egypt, but even as origin and man the Moses myth is founded on.
          You can find vast amounts of interesting reading with sources, links and publications by following this link:
Assassinating Moses:  http://www.moses-egypt.net/book-series/moses_sitemap_en.asp  Enjoy!

Vallhall, Bast, - Posts: 123 - Location: Norway - Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 12:45 pm  - http://freethoughtnation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=3339&start=30  - (15.Oct.2012)
_ _ _

          #  Freethinkaluva22 - Post subject: Re: Zep Tepi - Egyptian Creation Myths
          Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 3:06 pm

Nice one Vallhall, thanks for posting.
          Quote:  "Ove von Spaeth is a very interesting man. He is known for dating and decoding the
          oldest Egyptian star map."

How old does he say the oldest Egyptian star map is?

          Sharing links:
                    2012 Astrotheology Calendar
                    The Mythicist Position
                    Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection
                    Stellar House Publishing at Youtube

Freethinkaluva22, Site Admin, - Posts: 3855 - Location: 3rd rock from the sun - Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 5:24 pm - http://freethoughtnation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=3339&start=30  - (15.Oct.2012)
_ _ _

          #  Vallhall - Post subject: Re: Zep Tepi - Egyptian Creation Myths
          Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 2:54 am

The specific event depicted on the Senmut map is calculated to be May 1534 BC ( Gregorian calender ). I know there are disputes and discussions regarding different theories, and I do by all means not assume knowledge about who are correct.
          Von Spaeth and his work concerning the Senmut map is not the established community view, but deserve some interest as it is published by a journal with very high credentials.
          Purpose of my post was to add some perspectives concerning Robert's post, and his thoughts;
          Quote:  It would be interesting to find out if the pyramids have any marker to Canopus in
          their design.

Views outside the frame of mind set by the established community is always interesting, as it is the place where new knowledge comes from. Like Acharya boldly question established view of Christianity and Jesus as founded on a "persons biography", Ove von Spaeth presents Judaism and Moses as continuation of ancient Egyptian knowledge. The difference is suggestion of Moses being a historical person, with religion being myth created around him.
          His work is interesting because it presents views that promote looking for knowledge outside "the box" that our mindset impose. I stumbled upon his work when I was looking at something interesting regarding the "mother and child" depictions that repeats itself in religions. Symbolism and patterns are my personal main interest and focus.
          Senmut and the princess images are so similar to other known versions that it is almost strange to see them as pure coincidence. This is one example ;
          Statue: Senmut and the princess Neferure, Altes Museum, Berlin. Inscription: Senmut, triumphant, not found among the writings of the ancestors, great father-tutor of the king's-daughter, Sovereign of the Two Lands, Divine Consort, Nefrure, ..... which I did according to the thought of my heart .....

Vallhall, Bast, - Posts: 123 - Location: Norway - Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 12:45 pm  -  http://freethoughtnation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=3339&start=30   - (16.Oct.2012)
_ _ _

          #  Robert Tulip - Post subject: Re: Zep Tepi - Egyptian Creation Myths
          Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 4:57 am

Hello Vallhall, thank you for sharing material from Ove von Spaeth on Egyptian star religion which I read with interest, especially his comments on Canopus.
          In the Golden Age known by the Egyptians as Zep Tepi, around 10,000 BC, Canopus and Vega were the pole stars. Canopus has since shifted far from the south pole, becoming visible in Egypt in historical times due to the precession wobble. Canopus is now equidistant between the south celestial pole and Sirius along a straight line. Continuing this line north eventually reaches Vega because Canopus and Vega are opposite in the sky. Santillana and von Dechend discuss Canopus at some length in Hamlet's Mill.
          My opinion, as I have expressed here previously, agrees with the theory of Philip Coppens and others that Canopus was a main star in Egyptian religion, but its invisibility from Europe meant that myths linking Canopus and Osiris were not understood by the Greeks. From Egypt Canopus and Argo sail across the southern sky at the time since co-opted by Mariolatry as the festival of blessing the waters with the launch of the ships in spring, when the barque of Osiris and Isis was launched on the Nile. Interestingly, the Arks of Gilgamesh and Jason both have fifty oars, one for each second of arc of precession each year.

          Von Spaeth opens interesting speculation about ancient civilizations. It is fun to imagine speculative links. My favorite is to imagine that the emerald tablet of Thoth is at the subterranean capstone formed by the point of an octahedron made by adding a mirror image pyramid below the Great Pyramid, as above so below. Even more imaginatively, I have noticed that Tahiti is exactly opposite the city of Thoth (Tehuti), Hermopolis. Balancing a globe of the world on a cup with Tahiti at the bottom will show Egypt at the top. Tahiti was first discovered by the Polynesians about 600 years ago, but this similarity of name is nonetheless an interesting coincidence. Noting the presence of sturdy ships at the pyramids led von Daniken to all sorts of speculation.

Robert Tulip, Moderator, - Posts: 502 - Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2009 4:41 pm  -  http://freethoughtnation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=3339&start=30 -  (16.Oct.2010)

       
Sidetop
¤ Facebook  -  November 2011....  -  comments:
 Interest Group for The Ove von Spaeth Papers

Interest Group for The Ove von Spaeth Papers on History and Knowledge:
- Rediscovery, Insight, Renewal.
• Communication and debate on Ove von Spaeth's exploration and discoveries concerning his research on the historical Moses, the Egyptian legacy, ancient sciences and astronomy

20. November at 21:29 2011
Anne-Sofie Norring Olm:
Thank you for the initiative to form this group...and looking forward to dive into all the informative texts.
best regards.
##
August 16 at 11:30pm   2011
Martin Gjedde:
          Sorry all, for not updating this most interesting paper of all times (Ove von Spaeth's 'The Suppressed Record'). But my time is for the moment not for researching the view of ancient times Hope all of you the best best greetings, Martin Gjedde.
          PS.  But anybody who wants to share knowledge and open minded, parts of ancient history whether you share the idea of Moses legacy, don't hesitate to share ideas or scholars latest research whatever your belief will be.
##
August 14 at  8:01pm  2011
Anu Kumar:
          The book can be downloaded at http://www.moses-egypt.net/zenith-files_en/e-books_group2_en.asp#3.
##
August 14 at 7:58pm  2011
Anu Kumar:
          Have recently discovered an updated version of Ove von Spaeth's book 'The Suppressed Record'. Its pretty remarkable!
##
June 21 at 1:01am   2011
Thor Afvandet:
          On the web site  http://www.moses-egypt.net/the Portal ZENITH-Files  is found. It's a net-base with Ove von Spaeth's articles and in particular his e-books.
          These books have interdisciplinary focus on past wisdom, star knowledge in historical cultures and ideas on the universe's secrets. So far, more than 25 e-books are to be found on this and succeeding pages:
http://www.moses-egypt.net/zenith-files_en/e-books_group1_en.asp
          See More on Moses Egypt: www.moses-egypt.net
New orientating data presenting Moses as a historical person is here available from Ove von Spaeth's long-term research and expertise.
         www.moses-egypt.net's Zenith Files present e-books by Ove von Spaeth on subjects such as: On the trail of Moses' legacy of ancient Egypt, The Knights Templar's Knowledge of Moses' hidden treasures, mysteries of alchemy and the Golden Calf, and in addition The science and the historical Moses.
##
June 20 at 11:56pm   2011
Anu Kumar:
          fantastic materials on history... am immersed in exploring.
##
June 13 at 12:50am   2011
Mai-Liis Gilde:
          Ove von Spaeth og hans bøker har vært en enorm inspirasjon og kilde til utrolige aha-opplevelser for den lille gruppen av nordmenn som har vært heldige nok til å finne disse bøkene. Når man har lest dem, er ens oppfattelse av organisert religion forandret for alltid. Det merkelige er at det er først nå interessen for religionshistorie kommer, etter at alle gamle oppfatninger om religionens magi måtte revideres.
##
October 10, 2010 at 04:39am
Anu Kumar:
          fascinating body of knowledge with links and connections to ancient and contemporary sciences world-wide. Would like to explore this further...
##
March 26, 2009 at 4:32am
Martin Gjedde:
          Ove von Spaeth presenting exquisite explorations. - All over the world interesting picture-series are presented in videos and powerpoint files on the Internet, but later many of them disappear again in oblivion.
          In order to hold some of the best of these series and keep them readily available, Ove von Spaeth has stored on Zenith-files an exquisite collection of pps.files (power point) and videos with pictures and topics of high quality.
Click:  http://www.moses-egypt.net/zenith-files_en/greatplaces_en.asp  - and also insert the link among your favourites/bookmarks.
          Also, by e-mail forward the link to your friends instead of mailing heavy powerpoint files - now you have direct access at once to more than 30 of such pps files.
Great places and exquisite sites - captivating and far-reaching cultural history: have some fine tours and explorations , - Martin

Interest Group for The Ove von Spaeth Papers, - http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=45399163234#!/group.php?gid=45399163234&v=wall

Sidetop



 
 
3  DEBATE AND NEWS ON OVE VON SPAETH'S DATING THE OLDEST EGYPTIAN STAR MAP
- evt. praktisk at kunne læse teksten off-line
¤ History Forums,  -  24 December 2011  -  reference:
Dating Egypt's oldest star map

Website Welcome to the Historum - History Forums.
Historum - History Forums > Blogs > KillCarneyKlansman


I've shown plenty of mathematical correlation to the texts ...

Helping Creationists understand Evolution
          /KillCarneyKlansman   - Join Date Jul 2011 -  Posts 271 -  Blog Entries 53

Dating Egypt's oldest star map
New discovery in an ancient Egyptian star-map, Updating Ancient Astronomy
http://www.moses-egypt.net/star-map/senmut1-mapdate_en.asp

          This 3,500-year old star-map adorning one of the ceilings in the tomb of the great Senmut (Senenmut) near Luxor (Thebes) apparently demonstrates a previously unknown aspect of the astronomical situation in Egypt around 1,500 BC. The data encoded in this map, and its significance, has for the first time been investigated by Danish researcher Ove von Spaeth and is published in July-August 2000 in the international journal of the history of the exact sciences, "Centaurus", vol. 42.
          The map's configurations, which have been considered as mythic representations, are now seen to be depictions of a rare gathering of planets in well-defined celestial positions.
          The information contained in the map refers to a specific point of time. [Moses's Birth] The re-evaluation of this and of subsequent maps, together with the data contained therein, gives birth to new perspectives. By introducing these reference points of time - substantiated in astronomical terms - the appropriate chronology of the epoch in question, which has been much disputed, may now be dated with considerably greater precision than possible before.

KillCarneyKlansman, -  Posted December 24th, 2011 at 12:35 AM by http://www.historum.com/blogs/killcarneyklansman/631-helping-atheists-understand-origins.html   -  (24.Dec.2011)

       
Sidetop
¤ Forum Ateista.pl   -  23 October 2007 -  references:
The ancient Egyptian astronomers

Forum Ateista.pl > Filozofia i światopogląd > Ateizm a inne koncepcje > Hitchens vs. McGrath     -  View Full Version : Hitchens vs. McGrath

np przypisuje egipskim astronomom z czasów faraonów umiejetność przewidywania zacmień słońca.
          hmm a nie potrafili? To taki mit kulturowy? W sensie wiesz, jakos tak powszechnie sie uwaza ze potrafili...
          W necie znalazlem na szybko:
Diodorus Siculus (50 B.C.), stated categorically that the ancient Egyptian astronomers possessed the ability to predict solar eclipses.

edit: e cos tu bezsensu jest, Siculus nie zyl wcale 50 BC...

edit: ok, inna strona podaje ta sama wiadomosc z data 50 BC :)
http://www.moses-egypt.net/star-map/senmut2-faq_en.asp#II

Kilgore Trout, -23.10.2007, 23:54 - http://ateista.pl/archive/index.php?t-3301.html -  (23.Oct.2007)

¤ godlikeproductions.com/forum1  -  26 July December 2011 -  references:
'The sweet influence of the Pleiades ...'

          godlikeproductions.com/forum1   -  
          1. Pleiades, A.C.. Mayans, 2 Witnesses and December 21, 2012

          You +1'd this publicly.
          24 posts - 2 authors - 29 Jul 2011
... do not so lightly negate Pleiades, or the stars or the heaven ... as it is mentioned in Job as a sweet influence ...
          [link to www.moses-egypt.net --> http://www.moses-egypt.net/star-map/senmut4-history_en.asp] Our temple like HIS, is a phi  pyramid!, just as we ourselves are phi  templated. So why not have seven stars associated with His temple. The sides of the phi  pyramid being exactly one seventh of a full circle. 360/7 = 51.41 degrees. That's why the temple or pyramid is called virgin. Nothing can penetrate it, No number can penetrate 7, it is undivisable, ...

http://www.moses-egypt.net/star-map/senmut4-history_en.asp

http://www.greatdreams.com/sisters.htm

http://www.thehiddenrecords.com/davinci_part2.htm

Davidjayjordan, - User ID: 1096396 - Canada - 07/26/2011 12:32 PM -  www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1573239/pg1  -  Davidjayjordan@yahoo.com  - (26.Jul.2011)

¤ Para-WebFoorum  -  11 November 2011  -  references:
Senmut - Senemuti

Para-WebFoorum  - Para-web / Teadus / Kosmos ja universum  -
/ Dresdeni koodeks ja iidsed tähetargad

          Postitus: #22
          RE: Dresdeni koodeks ja iidsed tähetargad
Tagasi iidsete tähetarkade juurde.
Leidsin ühe üleskirjutise pealkirjaga Teeba tähekaart.
Nimelt leiti 1857.a. Teebast ühest hauakambrist taevakaart, kus on kirjas 12 planeeti.
Meenutan, et näiteks planeet Pluuto avastati alles 1930 a.
          Otsisin internetist lisateavet ja leidsin niisuguse jutu:
http://www.anistor.gr/english/enback/v021.htm

          Sinna on kirjutatud, et see on 3500 aasta vanune tähekaart ja leiti Senemuti hauakambrist Luksori lähedalt Teebast. On ka pilt lisatud.  - Huvitav, kas see on sama tähekaart või on neid leitud Egiptusest ka teisi?  - Siin uusi avastusi sellelt tähekaardilt:
http://www.moses-egypt.net/star-map/senmut1-mapdate_en.asp

          Siin aga Senemuti hauakambrist huvitavaid pilte:
http://www.suziemanley.com/june/architec.htm

          Senemut oli Hatshepsuti templi arhitekt. - On ka Tähekaardi visanditest pilt.
Veel pilte tähekaardil kujutatust:
http://www.thirax.dk/artikler/OveSpaeth/Ove37/index-uk.htm

          Aaa nüüd leidsin, siin on ka teistest Egiptuse tähekaartidest:
http://www.moses-egypt.net/star-map/senmut5-world-axis_en.asp

          Maailm on täis lahendamata mõistatusi ja mõned neist on veel saladuslikumad, kui üldse osatakse ette kujutada.

Müstik - Šambhalas, - Postitus: #22  -  11-11-2011 18:57  - Para-WebFoorum  - Postitusi: 7,020 - Liitunud: Oct 2004  -  Estonia  -  http://www.para-web.org/showthread.php?tid=6243  -  (11.Nov.2011)

       
Sidetop
¤ Wikipedia, - Star, - October 2007  -  encyclopedia article:
The oldest, accurately-dated star chart

Star --> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star
_

Star
          From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia  ... ...

Etymology
          The word star in English is derived from Greek aster, which comes from Hittite shittar, which is derived from Sanskrit sitara, "सितारा"[5].

[edit] Observation history
          Stars have always been important to every culture. They have been used in religious practices and for celestial navigation and orientation. Many ancient astronomers believed that stars were permanently affixed to a heavenly sphere, and that they were all but immutable. By convention, astronomers grouped stars into constellations and used them to track the motions of the planets and the inferred position of the Sun.[6] The motion of the Sun against the background stars (and the horizon) was used to create calendars, which could be used to regulate agricultural practices.[7] The Gregorian calendar, currently used nearly everywhere in the world, is a solar calendar based on the angle of the Earth's rotational axis relative to the nearest star, the Sun.

          The oldest, accurately-dated star chart appeared in Ancient Egypt in 1,534 BCE.[8] Islamic astronomers gave Arabic names to many stars which are still used today, and they invented numerous astronomical instruments which could compute the positions of the stars. In the 11th century, Abū Rayhān al-Bīrūnī described the Milky Way galaxy as multitude of fragments having the properties of nebulous stars, and also gave the exact latitudes of various stars during a lunar eclipse in 1019.[9]

          In spite of the apparent immutability of the heavens, Chinese astronomers were aware that new stars could appear.[10] Early European astronomers such as Tycho Brahe identified new stars in the night sky (later termed novae), suggesting that the heavens were not immutable. In 1584 Giordano Bruno suggested that the stars were actually other suns, and may have other planets, possibly even Earth-like, in orbit around them,[11] an idea that had been suggested earlier by such ancient Greek philosophers as Democritus and Epicurus.[12] By the following century the idea of the stars as distant suns was reaching a consensus among astronomers. To explain why these stars exerted no net gravitational pull on the solar system, Isaac Newton suggested that the stars were equally distributed in every direction, an idea prompted by the theologian Richard Bentley.[13]  ... ...

References
  1.   Bahcall, John N. (June 29, 2000). How the Sun Shines. Nobel Foundation. Retrieved on 2006-08-30.
  2.   Richmond, Michael. Late stages of evolution for low-mass stars. Rochester Institute of Technology. Retrieved on 2006-08-04.
  3.   Stellar Evolution & Death. NASA Observatorium. Retrieved on 2006-06-08.
  4.   Iben, Icko, Jr. (1991). "Single and binary star evolution". Astrophysical Journal Supplement Series 76: 55–114.
  5.   Online Etymology Dictionary. Retrieved on 2007-09-21.
  6.   George Forbes (1909). History of Astronomy (Free e-book from Project Gutenberg), London: Watts & Co..
  7.   Tøndering, Claus. Other ancient calendars. WebExhibits. Retrieved on 2006-12-10.
  8.   von Spaeth, Ove (1999). "Dating the Oldest Egyptian Star Map". Centaurus International Magazine of the History of Mathematics, Science and Technology 42 (3): 159-179. Retrieved on 2007-10-21.
  9.   Zahoor, A. (1997). Al-Biruni. Hasanuddin University. Retrieved on 2007-10-21.
10.   Clark, D.H., & F.R. Stephenson (1981-06-29). "The Historical Supernovae". Supernovae: A survey of current research; Proceedings of the Advanced Study Institute: 355–370, Cambridge, England: Dordrecht, D. Reidel Publishing Co.. Retrieved on 2006-09-24.
11.   Drake, Stephen A. (August 17, 2006). A Brief History of High-Energy (X-ray & Gamma-Ray) Astronomy. NASA HEASARC. Retrieved on 2006-08-24.

Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, (find:) Star - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star  -  (Oct.2007)

¤ Studies of Occidental Constellations and Star Names - 2007  -  opinions:
Interpretation of star map to be seriously flawed?

Studies of Occidental Constellations and Star Names to the Classical Period: An Annotated Bibliography - Compiled by Gary D. Thompson

von Spaeth, Ove: (2000): "Dating the Oldest Egyptian Star Map." (Centaurus, Volume 42, Pages 159-179).      [Note: A controversial interpretation of the Senmut star map. The Danish author, who describes himself as an "independent scholar," seeks to accomplish considerable chronological revision (as part of his re-interpretation of the biblical figure of Moses).
          A number of critics on the Hastro-L (History of Astronomy) discussion list (January, 2002) have shown his astronomical interpretation of Senmut's star map to be seriously flawed. Christian Leitz in his 2002 article in Centaurus decisively critiqued this paper.
          See also: Belmonte, Juan, and Shaltout, Mosalam. (2007): "The Astronomical Ceiling of Senenmut: a Dream of Mystery and Imagination." In: Zedda, Mauro, & Belmonte, Juan, (Editors): Lights and Shadows in Cultural Astronomy, (pages 145-154).
          The authors critique and reject the ideas of Ove von Spaeth and also Christian Leitz that the ceiling depicts an astronomical scenario that can be precisely dated.]

Gary D. Thompson, - Australia, -  http://members.westnet.com.au/Gary-David-Thompson/page4.html   -  (2007)


_ _ _
(moses-egypt.net webmaster: see comment from Ove von Spaeth, below)

¤ A comment to Gary D. Thompson  - 2007 -  counter-evidence:
Interpretation of critics to be seriously flawed?

A comment to above text on Gary D. Thompson's astronomy web site.

Gary D. Thompson has established a very fine web site on the historical astronomy. And it was most needed. It has the fine quality that the information is presented preferably in a non-biased way. Unfortunately, in the case of presenting my treatise concerning Dating Senmut's Star Map, such principle was ignored.
          Approx. five dozens of experts from all over the world have expressed their congratulations and admiration for my paper (later, many among them also presented in this connection on www.moses-egypt.net). So, what is the reason for Mr. Thompson mentioning "... A number of critics joining the discussion list of the Hastro-L (History of Astronomy) have shown his (my)) astronomical interpretation of Senmut's star map to be seriously flawed ...". False !  - And "a number of ..." - why use this expression when it is correctly 2 people only - who honestly and openly admitted in their messages that they have not read my paper at all, but they "supposed" and "presumed" the paper must be wrong. They have not shown anything of the kind. 
          And "... Christian Leitz in his 2002 article in Centaurus decisively critiqued this paper ...". False, again! He has done nothing of the kind either. Leitz' claim about missing the planet Mars which then should haven been represented as a falcon is strangely unrealistic, because the falcon issue was only in use some hundred years later after Senmut - as Leitz very well should know. A fruitful discussion could have been raised, but instead there are no arguments at all in his text, and the only concrete information we can get from him is that he is very angry. What's the use?
          Besides, I was informed by asking the Centaurus staff that - in contrast to my paper which was clearly accepted after scientific scrutinizing - his texts was not peer reviewed. Normally in common practice the science editors prefer at least a minimum of scientific data and solid arguments.
          Authorities on the history of astronomy and Egyptology: - Professor Owen Gingerich, Harvard-Smithsonian Institute (11.Oct.2001), - Sir Patrick Moore, D.Sc., Astronomer, Science editor at the  BBC (15.Sep.2000), - and Professor Dr. Erik Hornung, Basel University (24.Oct.2001), - all with a special knowledge and long-term interest concerning the Senmut star map - have acknowledged independently and in particular voluntarily my star map dating project and the value of what the result suggests. They, and the many others, welcome the work as a promising proposal for a solution and do not speak about any "truth" about something having taking place 3,500 years ago - whereas the opponents (often non-experts) are expressing their cocksure critic ("this is completely impossible" ... etc.) as being the very truth and with no doubts.
          In addition, I have written about a solar eclipse which in the context of the map is astronomically correct, but critics claim that it's all is wrong because the eclipse could not be observed in Egypt at that point of time. But the ability to read a plain text is the obligatorical way to correctly understanding - there is not one word about this in my paper! The solar eclipse is situated at the right time-place on the map together with several planets which could not be observed either, because of being too close to the sun - but still they are all stated on the map, of course. So what's the problem? And note that no skeptics have proven any calculation wrong concerning the treatise's general sky positions for the Sun, Moon, and the planets - these are all correct and unambiguous.
          In case my paper on the Senmut map could be found totally wrong - you should, as naturally for genuine science, discuss it and oppose it, or try to disprove it, and thus let us together expand our knowledge - but, please, include scientific arguments and true data. Not bias and aggression. Instead, Mr. Thompson has chosen 2 or 3 people's criticism openly based on "suppositional ideas" to be mentioned, but excludes a significant number of expert opinions being of positive acceptance. What is his agenda?

          Ove von Spaeth

Postscript by OvS:   -  Later, in 2010, Gary D. Thompson  has in his web site text included the following - and now again without scientific arguments and true data - that: "... even von Spaneth fails to clearly present the views of persons he claims are 'supporter' of his claims. Von Spaeth is one of a number of people promoting speculative ideas ......".  Unbelievable! The desired presentation has been shown on my web-site since the year 2000 and has even been expanded later many times. Several e-mails from me to Mr. Thompson have earlier provided him with the specific address of the page in question:  http://www.moses-egypt.net/star-map/senmut1-mapdate_en.asp
          In addition to the many experts and prominent persons' supporting statements about the star map treatise and the recommendations given by peer-reviewers at different scientific journals, and the fact that dictionaries world-wide are referring to the treatise, and Yugoslavian astronomer Boran Novakovic has his treatise based on it - that they must all have overlooked that "...Von Spaeth is one of a number of people promoting speculative ideas ...". But as it seems from his claims, Gary D. Thompson himself although without reading the treatise now invokes the authority of his own to make such 'disclosure'.
          I have to repeat that the ability to read a plain text is obligatorical in such matters, so when I in four words asked what his agenda is, Mr. Thompson responds: "... Ove von Spaneth falsely supposes that I have an agenda in mentioning only critics...". Thus, Mr. Thompson's claim is wrong, and so is even his reproduction of my name repeated four times in that condition.
          The documentation in question can be presented again here: more than 25 statements extracted from a larger group of astronomers, Egyptologist, and other scholars and professions on the mentioned page (in www.moses-egypt.net) are now an extra time presented (below) with their statements about Ove von Spaeth's treatise on "Dating the oldest Egyptian Star Map":

          "The findings are very ingenious and admirable, and quite surprising considering the apparent lack of interest of the Egyptians in this sort of astronomy ...I have visited and photographed the Senmut tomb several times, and I find it quite fascinating. Thus I find the paper especially interesting."
-  Owen Gingerich, Research Professor in Astronomy and the History of Science, The Harvard-Smithsonian Institution, Astrophysical Observatory, Cambridge Mass.  -  (11 October 2001).
#
          "The article on the Senmut ceiling, with so many interesting observations."
Erik Hornung, Professor Dr., Ägyptologisches Seminar der Universität Basel - (24 Oct.2001).
#
          "We congratulate for the discovery and we wish the author good luck with the further investigations."
- George V. Coyne, SJ, Director of Specula Vaticana (Vatican Observatory), Città del Vaticano; - & Gustav Teres, SJ, astronomer, Vatican Observatory, Castel Gandolfo, Italy  -  (12 Oct. 2001).
#
          "This important and fascinating paper - many congratulations on the research ...and it is a major advance. - (Years ago I did an English translation - not published so far - of E.M. Antoniadi's book on Egyptian astronomy)."
-  Sir Patrick Moore, D.Sc.,Astronomer, CBE, FRAS, Science editor at the BBC, - (15 Sept.2000).
#
          "Dear Colleague, - dating the Egyptian star map conveys materials we would not otherwise have, we appreciate it. (Will be passed on later to the Oriental Institute library). ..."
-  Robert D. Biggs, Professor, Ed., Journal of Near Eastern Studies, Oriental Institute, University of Chicago -  (12 October 2001).
#
          "A pleasure to announce that the work on Dating The Oldest Egyptian Star Map has just been published by Anistoriton - providing the readers of this Journal a selection of the news of the article published in the electronic version (Vol. 6/2002, Issue V 021) ... Congratulations and thank you for the permission."
-  D.I. Loizos, Professor in History, Editor-in Chief, Anistoriton History, Archaeology, & ArtHistory Journal, (ISSN 1108-4081), www.anistor.co.hol.gr/english/enback/v021.htm  -  (7 March 2002).
#
          "I have read your article "Dating the Oldest Egyptian Star Map" with great interest. I agree with your conclusions as to the general positions in the sky of the planets, the sun and the moon and the general dating of the configuration. - I find that there is really a solar eclipse at a time that is very close to the one you state, but provided the time is ephemeris time. - Actually there is no safe way of extrapolating that far back in time but the correction (ephemeris time to universal time) would be accurate to within +/- some hours."
-  Lars Gislén, D.Sc., Professor, Dep. of Theoretical Physics, University of Lund  -  (12 Sep.2000)
#
          "The paper on the Dating of the Oldest Egyptian Star Map, together with the summary and the FAQ, - I have read it with interest."
- M.S. Tite, Professor, Director: Archaeological Science, Research Laboratory for Archaeology and the History of Art, University of Oxford  -  (9 October 2001).
#
          "Calendari. A proposito di Calendari (questo mese)... è noto a tutti quanto la questione del calendario fosse importante nel mondo ebraico ... per tale motivo dedicherò almeno una pagina a links connessi in qualche modo con questo tema. ... Calendari: [VII -2003] - An Egyptian Star-map. By Ove von Spaeth, Independent Scholar, Denmark ( http://www.moses-egypt.net )."
Elio Jucci, Ricercatore Confermato - Lingua e Letteratura Ebraica - Dipartimento di Scienze dell'Antichità, Facoltà di Lettere e Filosofia - Università di Pavia, Itália - http://members.xoom. virgilio.it/Shib/calendar.htm & http://lettere.unipv.it/SETH/calendar.htm  -  (July 2003).
#
          "I find your work on the Senmut star map most interesting".
-  John Anthony West, Egyptologist, author and explorer, New York, http://www.jawest.com/  -  (31 March 2002).
#
          "When considering the existence of an original star chart that indicates the occurrence of a solar eclipse 3500 years ago, one should be allowed to focus one's attention on the closest - chronologically and geographically - solar eclipse that actually occurred. Why else would the indication of a solar eclipse be inserted into a star chart? The thesis on Senmut's star chart has raised an interesting discussion. - Ove von Spaeth, you have engendered quite a row among astronomers. - If nothing else, your work will lead to some interesting clarifications - which is more than most books have managed to achieve."
-  Jurij Moskvitin, mathematician, philosopher, writer, - 22270-010 Rio de Janeiro, Botafogo, Brazil  -  (9 January 2003).
#
          "Egyptologists were able to date that this particular configuration of planets occurred in the sky in 1534 BC, - cf. von Spaeth, (Centaurus, 2000)."
Bojan Novakovic, astronomer, - in treatise 'Senenmut: an ancient Egyptian astronomer, Publications of the Astronomical Observatory of Belgrade, vol. 85, 2008.   -  (October 2008)
#
          "Ho letto un articolo che tratta della datazione delle decorazioni della tomba. - Secondo questo studio, pubblicato da Ove von Spaeth nel 2000, la posizione dei pianeti e delle stelle raffigurati in quella tomba permetterebbe di datarla in modo precisissimo. Si tratterebbe del 7 maggio del 1534 avanti Cristo: http://www.moses-egypt.net/star-map/senmut1-mapdate_en.asp
-  Diego Coughi, Trystero, it.scienza.astronomia, - diego.trystero(at)gmail.com - www.newsland.it/nr/browse/it.scienza.astronomia/34408.html  -  (14.Jul.2005).
#
          "I have purchased your paper, 'Dating the Oldest Egyptian Star Map', from Centaurus Magazine via Blackwell. We are preparing a special exhibition about astronomy. I am the Acting Head of the Department of Astronomy at The Kroppedal Museum (formerly The Ole Roemer Museum). The main subject of this department is in general the history of Danish astronomy (Tycho Brahe, Ole Roemer, etc.), however, we are also engaged in ancient natural science and cosmology. With greatest interest I have read your paper on the dating of the Star Map from the tomb of Senmut."
-  Jakob Danneskiold-Samsøe, Leading Curator, Department of Astronomy, Kroppedal Museum, (DK-2630 Taastrup), - astronomi@kroppedal.dk - www.kroppedal.dk - (27.Apr.2006).
#
          "When people like Owen Gingerich, whom I greatly respect as an astronomical historian, appear to endorse something astronomically historical, I tend to sit up and take notice."
Stephen Tonkin, astronomer, writer, - Ancient History and Archaeology, "The Hall of Ma'at" - Re: One for the astronomers ? (IP Logged) - www.hallofmaat.com/read.php?1,21406,21937#msg-21937 Date: January 19, 2002 08:53AM  -  (19 January 2002).
#
          "I found Ove von Spaeth's page on Senmut's Star Map very interesting. - It's also interesting that von Spaeth suggested that the map indicated a "specific point in time"; on that I agree because it's something the Ancients would do. - Why in this living world, on the other hand, von Spaeth would include a series of responses on the subject from the-hall-of-maat (net discussiongroup) - I cannot imagine. I also loved the choice comment by Owen Gingerich: Quote: "... the [von Spaeth's] findings are very ingenious and admirable ..."  ."
- James Gillette, - http://ahatmose2002.proboards22.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=200  -  (9 September 2006).
#
          "Without any knowledge of astronomy I am nevertheless convinced that from an Egyptological point of view the paper by Mr. Ove von Spaeth contains new and valuable information concerning the date of Senmut's star map."
Erik Iversen, Dr.Phil.h.c., Egyptologist, formerly the Copenhagen University - (20 Jan. 1997).
#
          "The resulting date of Senmut's star map, objectively proven by the author on an astronomical basis, adds, in my opinion, a considerable contribution to the debate concerning the Egyptian chronology."
- Kristian Peder Moesgaard, D.Sc., Professor, History of Science Department, Aarhus University; - Director of the Steno Museum, Denmark's National Museum for the History of Science, Aarhus  -  (10 February 1997).
#
          A further number of acknowledgements, notices, disputes, and questions, from e.g.:
- Sebastian Richter, Dr., Ägyptologisches Institut, Universität Leipzig (21.Sep.00 & 17.Oct.00);  - Lisa Montago Leahy, Ed., The Journal of Egyptian Archaeology, Department of Ancient History and Archaeology, The University of Birmingham (20.Sep.00);   - Amanda McCaig, Ed., Astronomy & Geophysics, The Journal of the Royal Astronomical Society, University of Leeds (9.Sep.00);   - Mike Levad, Developer, The Franklin Institute Science Museum, Philadelphia (7.May.02);  - Dave Eicher, Astronomer, Ed.: Astronomy Magazine, Wausheska, Wisconsin (24.Feb.2003);  - Margaret Rossiter, History of Science Educator, Ed.: Isis Journal of the History of Science Society, Cornell University, NY (5.May.02); - etc.    - Tanks to all for their interest,

          Ove von Spaeth  - 
(ultimo 2010).

        ARCHIVES                    Scientists’ correspondence with Ove von Spaeth on
          The Senmut Star-map and his discovery of its dating
 
¤ Discovering the star map research  -  9 October 2011  -  Review :
A closely-reasoned scientific paper - this thoughtful and reflective leap brings new light on Senmut's map

Dating the Oldest Egyptian Star Map
          In this treatise, 'Dating the Oldest Egyptian Star Map', Ove von Spaeth developed the implications and significance of a configuration of planets and stars represented on the most ancient Egyptian star-map - the 'Senmut Star Map' - from the reign of Queen Hatshepsut (ca. 1500 BC) during the 18th Egyptian dynasty. By drawing upon the resources of modern astronomy and mathematics, von Spaeth computed and verified the presence of distinctive planetary conjunctions represented on the Senmut map as a factual occurrence in the skies.
          By doing so, he was able to indicate a more exact dating of its time and period in Egyptian history and of the reign of Queen Hatshepsut. His approach - a combination of modern astronomy, statistics of rare planetary conjunctions, mathematics, archaeological materials, and Egyptology - allowed for a fuller understanding of Egyptian history dating and shed light on the place of ancient astronomy in its cultural contexts.

On detail and perspectives
          In all: a closely-reasoned scientific paper that explores the implications and significance of an unusual configuration of planets and stars represented on an ancient Egyptian star map - the Senmut Star Map established 3,500 years ago - the world's oldest star map.
          Earlier scholarship on the Senmut star map by Egyptologists focused mainly on identifying the planets and stars depicted on the map and analyzing its principal features but the significance of the actual configuration of these stars and planets remained unrecognized. By drawing upon the resources of modern astronomy, the author, Ove von Spaeth, has here been able to compute and verify the presence of the distinctive planetary conjunctions represented on the Senmut map as a rare and factual occurrence in the skies and so also to indicate a more exact dating of its time and period in Egyptian history.
          His approach - a combination of modern astronomical and mathematical evidence with archaeological materials and Egyptology - allows for a fuller understanding of the development of astronomy in ancient Egypt and to provide important chronological evidence about the reign of Queen Hatshepsut.
          As well, it reveals that ancient Egyptians were not concerned merely to represent astro-mythological features in star maps as aspects of their cosmology but to mirror concrete and specific events in the sky as and when they occurred. Such usage of star maps in ancient Egypt, interpreted as here with support from modern astronomical computational methods, opens up areas of research and investigation that have remained largely unexplored for lack of interdisciplinary approaches and perspectives derived from critical relations between modern science, archaeology, and Egyptology.
          Ove von Spaeth's treatise takes a thoughtful and reflective leap in this direction and brings startling new light upon the skies of the Senmut star map
.

Anu Kumar, Ph.D. in English Literature, Pittsburgh University, and M.A. in Sanskrit Studies, Copenhagen University  -  (9.Oct.2011).

       
Sidetop
¤ en.wikipedia.org, ‎ -  29 December 2008‎ -  references:
Egyptian constellation history

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Rursus/Lynx/Lynx-5"

Cooking soup on a nail
User:Rursus/Lynx/Lynx-5  -  From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

          Constellation history  - Egyptian:
Ove von Spaeth's analysis of Egyptian star maps from 1534 BCE:
•  "New Discovery In the World's Oldest Star Map", requires some analysis of von Spaeth himself, his books and how he is received in the relevant academic branches.
•  Gögl on "Ove von Spaeth" 1,080 hits for the dbl blip delimited (") Ove von Spaeth, which indicates some genre-related reknownedness
•  My OR valuation: he is cooking soup on a nail.

en.wikipedia.org,  - 10:36, 29 December 2008‎  -   -  00:55, 11 June 2011‎  -  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Rursus/Lynx/Lynx-5   -  (29.Dec.2008)

¤ Discussion Group, American Prehistory  -  30 Oct. 2007 -  Precolumbian Inscriptions:
This man knows heeps of what the Stars say

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Precolumbian_Inscriptions/

Precolumbian Inscriptions - Discussion Group on American Prehistory

Message #10408 of 11835  -  Tue Oct 30, 2007 7:57 am
RE: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] Draco -thingy

          I believe we were left some directions to fallow ...be they Commands or Keys ..
these where only pointers ...either we learn from past mistakes or we end up going
the way other species of [humids] (Ove von Spaeth - Senmut Star Map)...
          The ones who should be looking at the civilized leftover's can't see beyond their beaks ...
their minds are locked-down into some other repeaters dreamscape ...and they are
myriads :

Pat/Moby,  -   (30.Oct.2007)  - http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Precolumbian_Inscriptions/message/10408

- - - -
Message #10413 of 11835  -  Wed Oct 31, 2007 12:38 am
RE: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] Emailing: harapan priest

Mike, it was the unusual shape of his Cranium ...he could have been of a different
species ...thinking along the lines of the Neander people ...who were said to be left handed
... like the Pharaohs of Egypt ...who first were inclined to believe in the Pleiades
Constellation (Ove von Spaeth), see history of Moses ...who ever the [Humids] were ...
time might make them show thermselves ...this man knows heeps of what the Stars say :)
          Look for Pleiades on this sight ...then go to the Semnut Star Map (Ove von Spaeth)...
http://astrowww.phys.uvic.ca/~johnston/
          I have been churping about it before I heard before I knew about (Ove von Spaeth)...
but no one could see ...so now I ask you ...can you see something in Johnstones
Evaporating Disc ....of Pleiades ...or can Judith Marie ...even like ...there ...
I've thrown out a challenge to the academic world ...from a self taught scavenger :)
regards all

Pat/Mobydoc,  -    (31.Oct.2007)  - http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Precolumbian_Inscriptions/message/10413

- - - -
Message #10623 of 11835  -  Tue Feb 19, 2008
RE: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] Re: Collection Father Crespi

G-day Debbie ;  -  My recent research has been towards the various Constellations ...particularly the signs of the Mayan and the word (Glyphs) of 2012/3 December season ...
          Some other groups believe it is a panic [Thesis] not so...and I can prove my point .
with the aid with just four {4} URL's ...how the Ancients Mayan knew of certain coming advents ...
is far beyond our knowledge that we have today ...all we can do is to understand the legacy that was left ...and try to look at these things with a unbiased eye ... things which are often overshadowed by the records of past slaughtering of peoples ; (Peace or little pieces

Pat/Mobydoc- (19.Feb.2008)  -
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Precolumbian_Inscriptions/message/10623

          p/s  Have you read any of the works of [ Ove von Spaeth ] Moses ?
          pp/s Mother White Moon was Earths last Moon ...the one that caused the Biblical Flood of
          Moses [IMHO] It was a huge sphere of space Ice !!!
 

       
Sidetop
¤ historum.com/ -  24 December 2011 -  blogs:
Helping atheists understand origins

www.historum.com/blogs

Welcome to the History Discussion Forum!
Subject:  Helping atheists understand origins

Dating Egypt's oldest star map
New discovery in an ancient Egyptian star-map, Updating Ancient Astronomy
http://www.moses-egypt.net/star-map/senmut1-mapdate_en.asp

          This 3,500-year old star-map adorning one of the ceilings in the tomb of the great Senmut (Senenmut) near Luxor (Thebes) apparently demonstrates a previously unknown aspect of the astronomical situation in Egypt around 1,500 BC. The data encoded in this map, and its significance, has for the first time been investigated by Danish researcher Ove von Spaeth and is published in July-August 2000 in the international journal of the history of the exact sciences, "Centaurus", vol. 42.
          The map's configurations, which have been considered as mythic representations, are now seen to be depictions of a rare gathering of planets in well-defined celestial positions.
          The information contained in the map refers to a specific point of time. [Moses's Birth] The re-evaluation of this and of subsequent maps, together with the data contained therein, gives birth to new perspectives. By introducing these reference points of time - substantiated in astronomical terms - the appropriate chronology of the epoch in question, which has been much disputed, may now be dated with considerably greater precision than possible before.

KillCarneyKlansman,  - Posted December 24th, 2011 at 12:35 AM - Posts 276 - Blog Entries 53  - Join Date Jul 2011  - http://www.historum.com/blogs/killcarneyklansman/631-helping-atheists-understand-origins.html   -  (24.Dec.2011)

¤ История науки и наука история  -  29 Апрель 2008  -  Новые хронологии: 
Новые хронологии  -  New Chronology

Хронология и хронография
Дискуссии на темы хронологии, методов исследования прошлого, истории научных знаний

Начало » История науки и наука история » Новые хронологии » Re: Два сапога - пара?

          Re: Два сапога - пара? [сообщение #62002 является ответом на сообщение #61996]

 

Вы хотите сказать, что эти звездные потолки на самом деле не содержат достаточной информации для того, чтобы их можно было датировать астрономически?

_ _

Я этого не говорил. Некоторые вполне могут содержать достаточно информации для астрономической датировки. Но это в любом случае не гороскопы с положением планет в традиционных знаках зодиака.

А какие астрономические данные на них есть, и пробовал ли кто-нибудь до Фоменко датировать звездные потолки по тому, что есть?
_ _


Самые распространенные изображения - фигуры деканов их состав из-за прецессии менялся во времени и это один из способов грубой датировки. Отдельные древнеегипетские изображения на которых есть фигуры планет пытались независимо астрономически датировать и до и после Фоменко.
          Например, гробницу Сененмута:
http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/pdf/10.1034/j.1600-0498.2000.420301.x
http://www.moses-egypt.net/star-map/senmut1-mapdate_en.asp
          Критика:
http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/pdf/10.1034/j.1600-0498.2000.420301.x
          Но это мы уже здесь обсуждали.
_ _

Предыдущий вопрос делю на два. 1. Есть ли в вашем распоряжении более детальные изображения древнеегипетских звездных потолков, которые можно было бы отсканировать и выложить в Сеть?
_ _

Изображения гробницы Сененмута вполне детальные:
http://hbar.phys.msu.su/gorm/wwwboard/messages47/17702 

Administrator, - сообщение #62002  - Втр, 29 Апрель 2008 20:19  - gorm - Сообщений: 11747  - Зарегистрирован: Октябрь 2009 - Географическое положение: Москва Канцлер - http://hbar.phys.msu.ru/gorm/forum/index.php?t=msg&th=2826&goto=62195&S=
16cbb3b222d47c7493d8c26c5277b71e#msg_62195
  - (29.Апр.2008)


- - - (Translation:)
      
   Home »History of science and science history, »New Chronology »Re: Two boots - a pair?

Chronology and chronographs
Debate on history, research methods of the past, the history of science

          Re: Two boots - a pair? [Message # 62002 is a reply to message # 61 996]

Are you saying that the star ceilings actually do not contain sufficient information so that they can be dated to astronomical?
_ _

I never said that. Some may well contain sufficient information for the astronomical dating. But in any case it is not the position of the planets horoscopes in the traditional signs of the zodiac.

What kind of astronomical data they have, and tried to anybody to date Fomenko star ceilings on what to eat?
_ _

The most common image - the figure of the deans of the precession of the changes over time and this is one way to rough dates. Certain ancient Egyptian images on the planet who have tried to figures independently astronomically dated before and after Fomenko.
          For example, the tomb Senenmuta:
http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/pdf/10.1034/j.1600-0498.2000.420301.x
http://www.moses-egypt.net/star-map/senmut1-mapdate_en.asp
          Criticism:
http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/pdf/10.1034/j.1600-0498.2000.420301.x
          But we have already discussed it here.
_ _

Previous issue divide by two. 1. Is there at your disposal more detailed images of ancient Egyptian star ceilings, which can be scanned and put on the Web?
_ _
          Images of the tomb Senenmuta quite detailed:
http://hbar.phys.msu.su/gorm/wwwboard/messages47/17702

Chancellor, Administrator, - Message # 62002 - Tue, 29 April 2008 20:19 - gorm - Posts: 11 747 - Registered: October 2009 - Geographical Location: Moscow - http://hbar.phys.msu.ru/gorm/forum/index.php?t=msg&th=2826&goto=62195&S=
16cbb3b222d47c7493d8c26c5277b71e#msg_62195
  - (29.Apr.2008)

       
Sidetop
¤ thunderbolts.info/forum  -  5 November 2011  -  ideas for our attention:
The World Axis, Senmut and the Light

Thunderbolts Forum - For discussion of Electric Universe and Plasma Cosmology - Board index ‹ New Insights and Mad Ideas - Bill McDonald's General Composite of the Roswell Spacecraft - http://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=3947&start=105 • 512 posts • Page 8 of 35.

Beyond the boundaries of established science an avalanche of exotic ideas compete for our attention. Experts tell us that these ideas should not be permitted to take up the time of working scientists, and for the most part they are surely correct. But what about the gems in the rubble pile? By what ground-rules might we bring extraordinary new possibilities to light?
                                                                                          Moderators: arc-us, MGmirkin

The World Axis, Senmut and the Light
http://www.moses-egypt.net/star-map/senmut5-world-axis_en.asp
          (Excerpts of the Ove von Spaeth texts and findings:)

          OVE VON SPAETH, Danish writer, historian, and researcher, investigates the ancient, still significant traces and the surprisingly many surviving clues concerning the historical Moses - a new dimension explored. This task is thoroughly supported by the fact that the author is endowed with substantial historical and astronomical knowledge and experience.
          Altogether, in the various works of Ove von Spaeth, published during his many years of intensive studies and inter-scientific exploration, this background combines with his comprehensive research into archaeology, Egyptian tradition, Bible analysis, ancient languages, the history of religions, anthropology, and historical significant facts about mystery religion and mythology. Throwing new light on the unusually abundant and also controversial material, and in addition viewed from a holistic angle his research also extends to a special line of science: the cosmology of historical religions.
          He presents:

          The oldest known Egyptian image of the World-axis is on the exceptional star map from ca. 1495 BC - the time of Hatshepsut - in the tomb of Senmut, the magnate, in Thebes.
          The Egyptian text, "The Book about Day and Night" also known at the time of Ramses VI, calls the axis menit (mnj.t), the 'mooring post' of the celestial boats sailing between the planets. Another text, "Papyrus Harris", calls it:
"... a column from the Earth up to the sky ...".
          This version of the axis as mooring post is so far unknown to the Egyptologists. In the 4,500 years old texts, called the "Pyramid texts", this pole is hailed clearly in its role as the World-axis:
"... Heaven's gates are open for you, the mooring woman is called for as Isis".
          Here the coherence is very obvious, as the goddess Isis was always identified with the Sirius-star at the World-axis' root or lower end.

The World-axis was connecting to sky-cultic rituals: the World-axis or the World Tree in the form of a certain pillar or post - to be found in some of the ancient temples and sanctuaries - is also recognized in the Hebrew Bible's text of Deuteronomy (16:21-22):
"... do not plant a tree … as a holy post close to the altar of Yahweh, your god ...".
          The healing or magic thing about the World-axis/post/pillar was recognized in the biblical text about Moses, who during the desert wandering proclaimed that Israelites who were ill could to be restored if they lay down in front a holy post placed by him in the desert. The Bible describes how a copper snake had been placed on the post. It was later kept in the Jerusalem temple from where it was removed by King Josiah in 622 BC. Moses' post/staff with the snake is the oldest known version of what is still used as a medical symbol - later, since Greek-Roman times, it is known as the "Aesculapius staff".

                                                                    *  *  *
          The World-axis was considered a magic place where the gods would reveal themselves and descend along the pillar or the post as a Jacob's ladder from the upper regions of the heavens. Cf. Jacob's dreaming at the foot of the ladder - in the Bible (Genesis, 28).
          By this holy pillar - or the holy tree, i.e. the World Tree - linked with these special powers, the said cultic ritual called hieros gamos, 'the sacred coitus', could be executed by the royal couple of the country or by the crown prince and crown princess.
          The World-axis was considered a magic place where the gods would reveal themselves and descend along the pillar or the post as a Jacob's ladder from the upper regions of the heavens. Cf. Jacob's dreaming at the foot of the ladder - in the Bible (Genesis, 28).

          Later, a Greek myth mentions that the god Zeus descended like a swan and fertilized Leda (Ionic for 'woman'), who later gave birth to twins, Castor and Pollux - the Gemini constellation.
          The entire narrative is related to the astro-mythological expression of the mysteries, as the position of the constellation The Swan (Cygnus) near the star, Vega (Lyra), at the upper pole of the World-axis was considered the starting point of a divine power that followed this course of the magical World-Axis from the upper sky and down to earth to the "woman at the foot of the axis"; the sons are the Gemini stars situated directly above this lower part of the World-axis.
          From Homer's recounting of the Greek mythology it appears that when Odysseus was reunited with his wife, they lay in a conjugal bed carved from the stump of a huge olive tree - still with its roots in the ground. The holy intercourse took place under the stars and at the very root of the tree, its lower "Canopus-part".
          The basic idea of this - being placed under the canopy of the tree's crown up in the sky or even the entire starry heaven stretched as a baldachine, a canopy - can be seen later in European royal conjugal beds for the wedding ritual and they were the first having a star-decorated canopy, called the canope "as at Canopus".

                                                                    *  *  *
          Star cults were often connected with worshipping of the post, the World-axis, supplemented with oracle observance - and possibly temple prostitution.
          In ancient India a special cosmic-religious-philosophical tradition also had focusing the North Star (Stella Polaris) which is connected in reference to the Turtle Star, Kurma. It is all mentioned in the ancient text, "Patañjali's Yoga Sutras", The star is the third brightest star in the sky and is known in the Near East and Europe both by the (Arabic) name Vega and Greek name Lyra.
          This star is to be located as an uppermost centre in the northern sky and was known in Egypt, India, China, as well as by the Greeks. The genuine North Star or Turtle Star, Kurma, i.e. Vega, was the original North Star 13,000 years ago; however, it constitutes still and always the top of the World-axis.
          The above mentioned "Yoga Sutras" contains 195 stanzas of learning - and is connected to ancient India's "collection of supreme knowledge", the Vedanta-doctrine in the texts of the Upanishads. Approx. 2,300 years ago, the sage Patañjali wrote the "Yoga Sutras" in their final form.
          A special group of stanzas in "Patañjali's Yoga Sutras", Book III, Sutras 25-31, informs about the stars and their cosmic arrangement of placement in space. The Sutra 28 reads:
"... By intensive meditation (Samyama) on the North Star (Polar star) the person who practice this yoga shall obtain knowledge about the movements of the stars. ..."

                                                                    *  *  *
          From the Earth we can see our own galaxy almost like the slim area of a diametrical cut of a dish, the very cut as the nesau - the Egyptian expression for the 'Milky Way' - with its light surrounding the cosmic World-axis crossing over the sky from the south to the north.
          The light of the universe has a special quality for the life and this light is being "amplified" when passing through a galaxy. This is what happens - also when the light is passing diametrical via our galaxy outside through its curved rim and, as seen from the Earth, beaming out from the long narrow surface which appears as "the cut", i.e. the bright ribbon-like Milky Way, which in mythology was perceived as the informative and "nourishing" World-tree of Life.
          Likewise, in ancient cultures people could in their own way perceive the Milky Way as the true, enlightening life-supporter in the sky. From the cosmos it is transmitting - according to near future science - the radiation's special bio-energetic light forms.

          Such light, the cosmic all-penetrating radiation light, is forming superstring-like connection and coherence of the universe.
          This light, self-organizing intelligently structured exuding its qualities through our galaxy, was seen as a tool for creating - filling the universe by being the formative as well as informative medium. The universal light itself exists as super-information that never goes away or dissolves (but may vary in levels of appearances); the consistency of such facts enters into the coherence of modern astronomy and quantum physics/mechanics.
          For instance, the ability of transporting data, pictures, and music through light in optic fibre cables - is today a well-known principle. However, far beyond such limited, 'earthly' function the power of the cosmos light is everywhere.
          About "in the beginning" the ancient Egyptian cosmology account mentions "... the first beams of light that lit up the world ..." - and the Bible's Book of Genesis, 1:3, states conjuringly: "... and then there was light ...". The two American research engineers and Nobel Prize winners, Arno A. Penzias and Robert W. Wilson, found in 1965 the first physical proofs ("the sound of Big Bang") to the hypothesis earlier presented by Pyotr Kapitsa and especially by George Gamow. Penzias and Wilson showed that "light is the origin of the universe" ... "suddenly the universe arranged itself in order and became transparent".

                                                                    *  *  *
          George Gamow had published a Big bang theory work: the important cosmogony paper, "The Origin of Chemical Elements" (Physical Review, April 1st, 1948) - it became known as the Alpher-Bethe-Gamow theory; and then by observing/listening to the vast universe Penzias and Wilson had discovered background radiation of cosmological origin - imagine: 300 000 years after the universe was created darkness reigned. Then, suddenly, the very first rays of light burst through the shadows - to penetrate the universal darkness freely.
          The cosmos has, like a "fossil", thus being preserving traces of the universe in its infancy, and have here retained a trace of this original moment in the form of background radiation. As such, it constitutes a unique memory, providing elements of a response to questions of the birth of the universe, its expansion and its future. It bears witness to the very first rays of light - today we know that light is emitted by matter in the form of electromagnetic waves or particles known as photons, i.e. the famous wave/corpuscle duality of quantum mechanics.

          The light's inherent functioning methods possess some of the same qualities as language which - by itself - contains information, for instance of distinction, time (present, future etc.), location (sequence), and many other data (cf. language by itself as the eternal, great teacher). More so, the light also - in itself - contains data (besides some technical and astronomical information) among which some are needed for the life forms and their development, expansion, and maintaining (e.g. curing).
          These abilities are - according to the ancient sages - to be found in the very logos. In ancient civilizations through ages this special light was visualized as the World-Tree of Life and the World-Tree of Knowledge united, where the branches and twigs of the one tree constitutes the root and root-twigs of the other, all in one celestial picture, the Milky Way.

                                                                    *  *  *
          All around the world there are many ancient creation myths which explain the origin of the Milky Way and give it its name. The English phrase is a translation from Greek galaxias, which is derived from the word for 'milk' (gala). In India it is called the Akashganga or a celestial form of the holy river, Ganga. In the Greek myth, the Milky Way was caused by milk spilt by celestial goddess Hera when suckling Heracles. In Egypt as well in the ancient Scandinavian myths, the sky was the celestial cow with the life-giving milk as the floating giant stream of stars and the condensed light of these as being life supporting, - cf. the Milky Way as the Tree of Life in combination with the Tree of Knowledge.
          Again, the Milky Way was seen as the true, enlightening life-supporter in the sky - radiating bio-energetic forms of light - as also being quoted from Penzias and Wilson's scientific research: "... light is the origin of the universe. ..."

          Concerning the primal light, the obelisks represent the same features or principles as the World-axis and - although they are not identical - they have these qualities in common.
          The measurements of the Egyptian big sizes obelisks mainly produced in the 18th and 19th dynasties show - in principle - some very special ratios by the lengths of the shaft combined with the breadth of the shaft both at its foot and at the slim upper part beneath the pyramidion on the top, and even with the diagonals. These mathematical proportions should be examined by modern science and compared or related to measurements or numbers in certain basic biological features and conditions and also to the influence or behaviour of light.
          Obviously, when some deep conceptions about the light forms were both known and expressed by the ancient cultures, we should be inspired to discover some important information here. Today, such special light as dealt with here, particularly when also consisting of high frequency radiation, should on this basis - together with its various ways of strong influence on life - be thoroughly investigated scientificly.

                                                                    *  *  *
          From the Earth the three brightest stars of the sky can be seen appearing on a complete straight line following the streaming Milky Way crossing over the sky. In several ancient cultures this outstanding celestial line of sight was perceived and expressed as a magic mast, in fact, as the one to be seen on the oldest Egyptian star map which adorns the ceiling of the 3,500-year-old tomb of Senmut.
          The constellation called the "ox-loin" (meskitu) by the Egyptians or Great Bear and Charles's Wagon by the people at many other places in Antiquity is circling around the mast every day (as seen from the Earth) and served as a cosmic symbol of the cycles of life, rebirth etc. In this way the principle of the cycles of the eternal life could be expressed also as being connecting the magical axis of cosmos.
          With the Benu bird of eternal life sitting on the top - the pyramidion being this capstone above the obelisk shaft - the Egyptians consequently used the description ben-ben for this kind of elegantly slim and spiritually shaped monoliths, these cultic objects of stone, a sculpturing never being surpassed.

          However, later the Greeks - for example, Pythagoras, Solon, Plato and others studied for many years in Egypt concerning the knowledge, spirit and science also inside the Egyptian cults - were naming the obelisks by a pun with a word we still use today: obelisk, meaning in Greek 'ox-spear' or 'ox-spit' because of its turning of the ox-loin like it was a roast on the kitchen fire. In later times the Romans often instead used the expression "a needle", cf. the enormous high "Cleopatra's needle" in Alexandria.
          On one of the pairs of obelisks which Senmut had carried out for the Queen-Pharaoh Hatshepsut and placed in the Karnak temple, the main temple of Egypt, the very obelisk inscription by Hatshepsut is strongly expressing the obelisk's vital purpose by referring to:
"... The Creation and the Vital, Radiating Essence of the Universe ...".
          (Above texts are extracts from Ove von Spaeth’s web page: http://www.moses-egypt.net/star-map/senmut5-world-axis_en.asp - or his e-book, “Star Cults and the World-axis”: http://www.moses-egypt.net/images/5ovs_en1_star-cults-and-the-world-axis_e-book.pdf ).

Lizzie, - Sat Feb 05, 2011 5:28 pm - (Posts: 2868 - Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2008 7:55 am) Bill McDonald's General Composite of the Roswell Spacecraft  -  http://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=3947&start=105  -  (5.Feb.2011).

       
Sidetop
¤ Para-WebFoorum  -  11 November 2011 -  references:
Senemut oli Hatshepsuti templi arhitekt

          Para-web / Teadus / Kosmos ja universum
          / Dresdeni koodeks ja iidsed tähetargad

          Para-WebFoorum

          RE: Dresdeni koodeks ja iidsed tähetargad
Tagasi iidsete tähetarkade juurde.
Leidsin ühe üleskirjutise pealkirjaga Teeba tähekaart.
Nimelt leiti 1857.a. Teebast ühest hauakambrist taevakaart, kus on kirjas 12 planeeti.
Meenutan, et näiteks planeet Pluuto avastati alles 1930 a.
          Otsisin internetist lisateavet ja leidsin niisuguse jutu:
http://www.anistor.gr/english/enback/v021.htm
          Sinna on kirjutatud, et see on 3500 aasta vanune tähekaart ja leiti Senemuti hauakambrist Luksori lähedalt Teebast. On ka pilt lisatud.
Huvitav, kas see on sama tähekaart või on neid leitud Egiptusest ka teisi?
          Siin uusi avastusi sellelt tähekaardilt:
http://www.moses-egypt.net/star-map/senmut1-mapdate_en.asp
          Siin aga Senemuti hauakambrist huvitavaid pilte:
http://www.suziemanley.com/june/architec.htm
          Senemut oli Hatshepsuti templi arhitekt.
On ka Tähekaardi visanditest pilt.
Veel pilte tähekaardil kujutatust:
http://www.thirax.dk/artikler/OveSpaeth/Ove37/index-uk.htm
          Aaa nüüd leidsin, siin on ka teistest Egiptuse tähekaartidest:
http://www.moses-egypt.net/star-map/senmut5-world-axis_en.asp

Müstik, Šambhalas,  -  11-11-2011 18:57  -  Postitus: #22  -  Postitusi: 7,040  - Liitunud: Oct 2004  -  http://www.para-web.org/showthread.php?tid=6243   -  (11.Nov.2011)

¤ Wikipedia:Featured article candidates  -  2 July 2012  -  references and comment:
Revision history

=== Comments from Cryptic C62 ===

* <s>"The recorded history of Mars observation dates back to the era of the ancient Egyptian astronomers." Leaves me wondering "and when was this?" Even an intelligent reader might not know if this is AD or BC.</s>
** Fixed; I added the millennium as a ballpark figure.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates
/History_of_Mars_observation/archive1

Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/History of Mars observation/archive1: Revision history
Source spot check.

         o    I wasn't aware of that, and I haven't been able to find much corroborating information. Hence I modified the article and based the date on Ove von Spaeth's work on the Senemut star map, which is referenced by Novaković (2008). Hopefully that's okay for now. Thanks. Regards, RJH (talk) 17:22, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
         • better, ta.

^ a b Novaković, B. (October 2008). "Senenmut: an ancient Egyptian astronomer". Publications of the Astronomical Observatory of Belgrade 85: 19–23. arXiv:0801.1331. Bibcode 2008POBeo..85...19N.

Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/History of Mars observation/archive1: Revision history  - http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Featured_article_candidates/History_of_Mars
_observation/archive1&action=edit
   -  (2.July2012)

 
¤ La Biblioteca Astrológica,   -  autumn 2011  -  references:
Bibliography on Ancient Egyptian Astronomy

La Biblioteca Astrológica & The Best Book

Nuestra Biblioteca y las Fuentes de Nuestros Estudios

          El estudio de la Astrología de tiempos antiguos no podría ser posible sin la labor que los filólogos y eruditos de las lenguas clásicas han estado efectuando por siglos. La elaboración de un texto fijado con aparato crítico es esencial para la correcta traducción y comprensión del texto, ya que permite conocer diferentes versiones originadas en diferentes códices.

          Bibiotecas Astrológicas - links:
Bibliography on Ancient Egyptian Astronomy
http://www.moses-egypt.net/star-map/senmut_bibliography_en.asp

La Biblioteca Astrológica,  - http://espacoastrologico.org/la-biblioteca-astrologica   -  (autumn,2011)

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ublishers who want to publish Ove von Spaeth's books as editions in English, German, Spanish, French, Japanese and other languages can use this address:

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                      >>> Further Debates:

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Debate - concerning  Moses-Vol. 2

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Debate - concerning  Moses-Vol. 5

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Debate - on the Star Map treatise

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A special treasure of knowledge and wisdom of Greece, Rome, and the Renaissance had originated in Ancient Egypt - and was here known to connect also with the historical Moses' dramatic fate and mystery.
          Ove von Spaeth has written an intriguing, new-orientating work presenting this still influential background of our civilization. His interdisciplinary research on history, archaeology, and anthropology goes deeply into Egyptian tradition, history of religion, initiation cults, star-knowledge, and mythology - relating to biblical studies, the Rabbinical Writings, and the authors of Antiquity. Each volume offers unique insights not presented before.
          Special information is presented by clicking on the individual cover illustrations:

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