"... The Danish researcher Ove von Spaeth does, in his book series: "Assassinating Moses", set up a quite convincing theory ... I do not necessarily agree in all von Spaeth's conclusions, but certainly no researcher has ever come as close to the truth about Moses as he does ...".         

Claus Fentz Krogh, - www.genesispatriarchs.dk/patriarchs/joseph/joseph_eng.htm  -  (autumn 2001)

          "... I have read the English portion, the chapters about Moses at the web site. Fascinating. I know you are on the right track. ...
          My area for study for 30 years has been the spiritual or allegorical meaning of the first four narrations of Genesis. My approach has been much like yours. In order to study Genesis I have researched in many areas, including Egyptian Myth ... It certainly is too short a space here for me to give you any proof of my discovery and work, and how it draws together and makes sense out of the comments on an allegorical meaning to Genesis, as claimed by Philo, Moses Maimonides, Josephus and others regarding these stories ... You have this deep interest in Moses, I do too ...".

Ray Kaliss, distribution.moraff, - thirdinvention@... - (& www.thegenesisletters.com/Library.htm )  - (3.Feb.2002)

After having read "The Enigmatic Son of Pharaoh's Daughter", which is volume 2 of the book-series on Moses, I can only repeat my great admiration for the impressive research, its logical conclusions, and the inspiring way of writing.
          Obviously the resistance that Ove von Spaeth's books are met with from some Egyptologists and present clergy is a result of a hurt, professional pride, or let us just use the correct designation, i.e. envy. At this moment a number of Egyptologists would wish that it was they who had presented this research for gaping and jubilant colleagues. Part of the clergy, academic theologians, we cannot take seriously. For centuries they have tried to twist and hide reality for people. Dogmas and blind faith is more important to them that the truth.
          Nor am I worried about the reaction of these "professionals", when in the name of myself I more and more try to support an active, open presentation of the old narratives in the light of this new research. Based on this concept the part of my lecturing activities having their sources in the series of books on Moses has quickly become quite a success …

          In addition I can reveal that I have made an agreement with Stjernegaard Rejser a/s (Ltd.), Copenhagen, an esteemed and very experienced travel agency specializing in Egypt, to the effect that I am going to complete their programme on the special Moses-voyages developed on the basis of Ove von Spaeth's books.
          The concept is a cultural voyage programme taking us to selected places mentioned in the books. At the sites and in the conference rooms of the hotels, lectures will take place presenting the subjects based on the special treasure of exceptional observations and recognitions that these books - often being the first ones with these achievements - are now documenting and presenting to us.

Erik Ansvang, Lecturer, Writer, Tour Guide, and Tour Organizer
Ndr. Fasanvej 34, III tv, DK-2000 Frederiksberg. ansvang@newmail.dk &
www.aton-rejser.dk  -  Phone +45-33 23 32 12   -  (10.Feb.2002)

(With Erik Ansvang's permission of February 2, 2002, to be used by OvS)

Now it will be harder for the ruling elite in the so-called Copenhagen University to continue the campaign against authoritaritan-knowledge-denying books on Moses, published by a self-taught lecture hall peace violator who does not understand that true empirical scientific training is based on that we do not challenge predecessors' mistakes and repressions because it will make the entire rickety edifice to shudder.

          We can now follow this drama which occurred in the light of the transformation of the oldest world picture and the ensuing emerging religion-ideology which is the logical consequence of the research enshrined in those books.

          Thus, the impression in summary, and being followed up in Ove von Spaeth's last-released book, the Volume 2:  clear, readable setup, with brief sections that subvert several thousand years of mythology. We are speechless and had to chew each word a second time. - The book is, like everything that has come from this authorship, conscientiously carried out and marked from caution: You may well be friendly and informative, even if we pull down a couple of world religions on the floor.

Jacob Ludvigsen, journalist, writer, editor, - Svanekevej 42, Braendesmark,
DK-3740 Svaneke - (5.Aug.2001)

(publication approved in writing of April 23, 2003, by J. Ludvigsen)

In many ways it has been surprising to be familiarized with the first books in the series on Moses. I so intensely hope that the rest of the release does not last as long, so we can be enriched and gain more insight from your fantastic wording and the incredible research you've done in order to these books' content will be as genuine as possible. I look forward to reading more on your investigations of star maps and astro-mythological accounts, not least the Egyptological statements, and to follow the way to make us readers grasp the material.
          Once we have started and entered in the books, we cannot break away again. This are books that everyone should read - even though they probably should be read more than once to pick up all the great insights. - The sophisticated trap in "The Enigma of the Son of Pharaoh's Daughter" is so exciting reading, - could Moses be the culprit in the mysterious murder? It's really interesting to read in a different way than you learned in school. - Also by reading the various critics' statements it appears that others than me, after reading in different ways or thoroughly rereading, discovered that the books have been written in multiple layers of perception.
          I can observe at least three layers - one layer for general orientating reading - another for readers with particular interest - and a third one for a deeper understanding of knowledge, and perhaps additional perspectives. It felt like a major feature, even deliberately done.

Ulla Runchel, - Writer, Researcher of future, - Rancho de la Luz, Mijas, Spain, -
www.forvandlingskuglen.webbyen.dk  -  (8.Apr.2002)

"Moses" ( www.moses-egypt.net )   [Translate]   En 
A non-commercial website presents archives of information and documentation regarding an outstanding five-volume work of advanced studies and re-evaluation of the status and era of Moses: Moses as a historical person. The work is founded on secular scholarly research into the Bible and the Rabbinical Texts combined with archaeology, Egyptology, and anthropology."

موسى  [ترجم]  En
   موقع غير تجاري يقدم أرشيف من المعلومات والوثائق حول عمل مكون من خمسة مجلدات، يتضمن دراسات متقدمة وثورية عن تمثال وحقبة سيدنا موسى عليه السلام كشخصية تاريخية. وقد قام العمل على أساس بحثي علمي في كل من الإنجيل والنصوص الربانية، إلى جانب علم الآثار، علم المصريات وعلم الإنسان.
 

Ajeeb, Arabic Portal, Dubai, - http://dalilc.ajeeb.com/data/64861.asp → (Arts and) Humanities  → History(80)  -  (Oct.2002)

Birth of Moses.   - Most Jews and Christians hold to a rather romanticized version of the Nativity of Mosheh or 'Moses'. In the year 1999 or 5759 common era, it seems to me that I remembered the true identity of Mosheh or 'Moses' as Senenmut the Steward of Hatshepsut. This appears to me to be a memory restored to me from a previous Gilgulim or 'Reincarnation' (Metempsychosis) and was not the result of any intense study or discipline. It came upon me as a Bas Kol or 'Daughter Voice' (Damamah: 'Silent-Hum'; Still-Small-Voice') in a moment of Inspiration.

          Concerning the Nativity of Mosheh, V'Elleh Sh'mos or 'Exodus' states:  - "And, a man from a House of Levi went, and, took a daughter of Levi. And, the woman conceived, and, bore a son, and, she saw that he was good, and, she hid him for three months. And, she was not able anymore to hide him, and, she took him with an ark of papyrus, and, she pasted it with bitumen, and, with tar, and, she placed the youth within it, and, she placed it in the reeds upon the banks of the Nile. And, his sister stood afar to know what would happen to him." (2:1-4; Sons of the Prophets version)
          A literal translation  of the original Hebrew is as follows:   - Va-yelek (And went) 'ish ([a] man) mi-beis (from [a] house) Levi ([of]Levi) va-yiqach (and took) 'es (direct object signifier) bas (daughter) Levi ([of] Levi). Va-tahar (And conceived) ha-'ishah (the woman) va-teleth (and bore) ben ([a] son) va-tere' (and saw) 'oso (direct object signifier) ki-tov (like good) hu' (he) va-titz'p'nehu (and she hid) sh'loshah (three) y'rachim (months). V'lo' (And not) yak'lah (was able) 'oth (anymore) hatz'fino (to hide) va-tiqach (and she took) lo (with) tevas ([an] ark) gome' ([of] papyrus) va-tach'm'rah (and she pasted) va-chemar (in the bitumen) vu-va-zafes (and in the tar) va-tasem (and she placed) bah (in the it) 'es (direct object signifier) ha-yeleth (the youth) va-tasem (and she placed) ba-suf (in the reed) al-s'fas (upon banks) ha-y''or (the Nile). Va-tesatzav (And she stood) 'achoso (his sister) me-rachoq (from afar) l'the'ah (to know) mah (interrogatory signifier) ye'aseh (making) lo (with).

          Hatshepsut.   - The "Key Figure" to any identification of the historical personage known as Mosheh or 'Moses' is Hatshepsut the Female Pharaoh. She was the so-called "Daughter of Pharaoh" that rescued the child Mosheh from the Nile River.
          False Theory.  A Seventh-Day Adventist by the name of Michael Scheifler has proposed a similar theory that Mosheh or 'Moses' is both Senenmut and Pharaoh Thothmoses II. His theory is posted at his "Bible Light" website, and, his theory has influenced several web-forum discussions. http://www.biblelight.net/moses.htm & http://www.kingtutone.com/board/viewtopic.php?p=6967

          Aaccepted dating methods and chronology.   - I challenge this theory of Michael Scheifler's in another section, however, suffice it to state that, as can readily be ascertained from a cursory survey by the various web-forum discussions, his theory challenges the accepted dating methods and chronology of the Eighteenth Dynasty of Egypt; as acknowledged by the Egyptologists. In opposition to this, my own recollection of the events coincide with the accepted dating methods and chronology;   http://www.specialtyinterests.net/alternate.html & http://www.maat-ka- while also re-interpreting the conclusions derived therewith:  http://www.moses-egypt.net/star-map/senmut1-mapdate_en.asp#5 (&  http://www.moses-egypt.net/star-map/senmut4-history_en.asp#5 ).

Stephanie Michelle, Soror Samhain - Practicus 3=8, Copyright 1999 or 5759 common era  -  http://groups.msn.com/GuildoftheProphets/moses.msnw  -  (1999, & 2000)

Moses Web Search Results - An interpretation of Moses as a historical person and of the chronology of his era, based on inter-scientifical research in history, Egyptology, theology, archaeology, and historical astronomy.
          - 4)  Moses & New Research / Moses' Identity and Mystery Re-evaluated [Moses] - ( www.moses-egypt.net ).

Moses Poster Print Picture Gallery, The largest selection of posters and art prints in the world - www.poster-print-picture-gallery.com/000000012/Moses%20-%20(259172).html - & - www.poster-print-picture-gallery.com  -  (Feb.2004)

DAHR:  Danish Association for the History of Religion. The DAHR is a society of scholars and teachers of religion, as well as others with an academic interest in religion and the historical study of religions. DAHR was founded in 1982.
          DAHR is affiliated with the International Association for the History of Religions (IAHR) as well as the European Association for the Study of Religions (EASR).
_

Jens-André P. Herbener, Cand.Mag. et Mag.Art.  -  reviewing:
          "Judith Vogt:  Der er heller ikke noget nyt under månen: En mosaik om magtens sødme (C.A. Reitzels Forlag. København. 1999)",  - Rambam: Journal for Danish Jewish History, 10, 2001, pp. 95-96.
          "Ove von Spaeth:  The Suppressed Record: Assassinating Moses, I, (C.A. Reitzels Forlag. København. 1999) & Ove von Spaeth:  The Enigmatic Son of Pharaoh's Daughter: Assassinating Moses, II, (C.A. Reitzels Forlag. København. 2000)",  - Rambam: Journal for Danish Jewish History, 10, 2001, pp. 93-95.
          "Judith Vogt: Den store illusion: Religion og politik (C.A. Reitzels Forlag. København. 2002)", - Rambam: Journal for Danish Jewish History, 11, 2002, pp. 113-114.

          Also, concerning J-A.P. Herbener, cf.: The Hebrew Bible Translation Project, www.hebrew-bibletranslation.com, 2002.

dahr.dk, - Jens-André P. Herbener, Publications, - http://www.dahr.dk/english.html  http://www.dahr.dk/bibliografier/JensAndreHerbener.html  -  (Spring 2002)

Limewoody:  Non Imprimatur - eurabia " WordPress.com Blog By limewoody on Non Imprimatur. Right now we only show the latest 20 posts, so even though there are more for this tag you can't see them yet. Patience! ... wordpress.com/tag/eurabia/
          For anyone who is interested in the ancient Egypt and the history of the Bible and Moses -go to this site:  http://www.moses-egypt.net/
          [ More results from limewoody.wordpress.com ]

Limewoody, Non Imprimatur, - http://limewoody.wordpress.com  - 05:45 (5.Apr.2006)
 

Dictionary.com Premium Registration > Reference.com - Web Results for: "secret testament"
_

# The Secret Gospel of Mark
In The Secret Gospel of Mark Morton Smiths discovery of a 2nd century document changes your understanding of Jesus' teaching and unravels Christianity's mysteries...
http://www.dawnhorsepress.com/products/ProductDetail_Main.asp?PID=2994

# Open Directory - Society: Religion and Spirituality: Christianity: ...
Holman Bible Dictionary: Messianic Secret - Gives several reasons why Jesus would want to keep his messiahship secret. ... The Problem of the Messianic Secret - Review of Wrede's analysis, ...
http://www.dmoz.org/Society/Religion_and_Spirituality/Christianity/Bible/References_
and_Tools/New_Testament/Gospels/Mark/Messianic_Secret/

# Assassinating Moses - Vol. 3: Debate
It is an important religious relict. Did the first Temple of Solomon also hold an ancient archive - secret documents dating back to Moses and Egypt?
http://www.moses-egypt.net/book3/moses3-debate_en.asp

Reference.com, - http://www.reference.com/search?q=secret%20testament&r=d&db=web  -  (Aug.2008)

A small observation I stumbled over by my reading of today's newspaper that may be helpful:
          In Berlingske Tidende (daily) in an article today (11.Sep.2006) from the series "On Muhammed" there is a paragraph describing a visit to Damascus at one of the leading Muslim historians (Damascus University), Suheil Zakkar, saying that:
          "... He is in the process of the last 3 volumes of a 95 volume great piece of work on the time of the crusaders, and then he has planned a ten-volume work on the history of Jerusalem. At the round table was a 1,100 year-old document, which referred St. Thomas and his life and the Gnostisc writings. ..."
          "... I have also got in another document ...", he said, and poked around in its stores. "... Most likely Moses should to be pushed 1,000 years further back in time. ..."

          You may already be familiar with this person and if not, he is perhaps interesting to seek out? Just for the information - and addition I want to show my respect to the many fine words you have received along for your work and achievements.

Henrik Dahlerup, maketingchef - hd@dfl-europe.dk  -  (11.Sep.2006)

I heard a reference this weekend that Moses killed a man. Can you inform me as to the truth behind this rumour. Thank you,

Mike Fash, - MWFast@aol.com  -  (9 July 2002)

::   OvS's reply.    In the Old Testament (Exodus 2:11-15) the episode is described very briefly, and it is the impression that Moses really might have killed a man.
          But the ancient Rabbinical Writings give the expanded version in detail, and from there it is obvious that it was a set up resulting in Moses being framed. The same texts show it is uncertain whether the supposed victim was killed. But even by pretending an assassination, the intention was to get rid of Moses.This seems to have been a way for his enemies either to have him eliminated or to get him out of the country.
          One of the Fathers of Church, who was the first historian of the Church, Eusebius of Caesarea, ca. 290, writes (Evangelia Praeparatio 9:27) that there was "... a huge conspiracy by the court making attempts to kill Moses ...". In the ancient libraries and from the old rabbis, Eusebius still had access to ancient knowledge and history. - Thanks for your interest.
          Ove von Spaeth

From Cpedia, the automated encyclopedia
_

The Astronomical Ceiling of Senmut's Tomb Whereas Emmanuel Velikovsky identified Queen Hatshepsut as the Queen of Sheba who came to visit King Solomon, internationally recognized former head of the School of Archeology at Andrew University in Berrien Springs, Michigan, Dr. Gearty, believes that a firm case can be made that Queen Hatshepsut was the foster mother of the prince apparent to the Pharaoh of Egypt, Moses. [13] The ancient temples constitute or represent "a part of the sky" placed in the terrestrial world. [14]
          The world's oldest known star map decorates the ceiling of the tomb of the vizier Senmut (Senenmut) at Luxor (Thebes) and Ove von Spaeth's analysis presents data disclosing a so far unknown level of astronomy in Egypt 3,500 years ago. [22] In his [Spaeth's] books Ove von Spaeth has also documented an exact dating of Moses a chronology supported by the information of time, which we are now able to interpret from the star map. [23]
         On this basis it became clear that the Senmut map does not present an incidental collection of planets or a copied pattern from possible predecessors. [24]
         Result and Unambiguity: the main form of the graphic arrangement of the planets on the Senmut map appears to be created in and with his [Spaeth's] idolized, but unambiguous picture of a certain configuration of planets in a certain part of the sky. [25] More indications: Mars retrogrades (a backwards movement) to the west, which in relation to the special form of arrangement of planets as at the time of Senmut, would appear only rarely. [26]
         Ove von Spaeth's discovery of the information of the contents in the Senmut star map and the untraditional observations and solution of special, difficult problems in this connection, have gained international admiration and respect In addition to the original, international publication about Senmut's star map in the " Centaurus", a special edition of the treatise with a FAQ list attached is also accessible all over the world in many important, scientific institutional libraries. [27]
1) Senenmut (Senmut), named as the architect of Hatshepsut's mortuary temple at Deir el-Bahri, as well as two burial tombs for himself. [28]

Sources (905 found)

- - -
One in particular was a certain Senmut, who held, according to some accounts, more than eighty different official titles and who must have been her [Pharaoh Hatshepsut's] most trusted assistant.

On History The Egyptian Star Map and Moses
The temple of Queen Hatshepsut was built 3500 years ago in Deir el-Bahari west of Luxor, and Senmut, the Grand Vizier, who was also a brilliant and innovative architect, had engraved in the foundation stone a kind of horoscope for the foundation of the temple ( according to French Egyptologist Suzanne Ratie's work " La reine-pharaon", Paris 1972 ).
moses-egypt.net/star-map/senmut4-history_en.asp
_

Project Zenith-Spaeth - Ove von Spaeth's neworientating historical research project
The Discovery Specifically: the star map is made out by Senmut, Queen/Pharaoh Hatshepsut's vizier, during the country's 18th Dynasty, and the decoded material can be objectively tested through modern, astronomical computing.
moses-egypt.net/book-series/moses_project_en.asp
_

World-axis Senmut and sky tradition
Consequently, the dating of the Senmut map might be able to establish more correctly the period of Senmut and his [Hathor's] contemporaries: Hatshepsut [Pharaoh Hatshepsut] and the Tuthmosis-kings.
moses-egypt.net/star-map/senmut5-world-axis_en.asp
_

ANISTORITON Viewpoints
The well-known Egyptian star map in question was worked out by Senmut, who was the vizier to queen Hatshepsut and also the calendar registrar of Egypt, during the 18th dynasty ( 16th c. BCE ).
anistor.gr/english/enback/v021.htm   - & - moses-egypt.net/bogserie/debat-fortsat-b_da.asp

Cpedia, the automated encyclopedia, - http://cpedia.com/wiki/Senmut?hit=0&source=1#ref_0   -  (spring,2010)

Concerning the book-series ASSASSINATING MOSES, by Ove von Spaeth:
          - The Danish writer and explorer, Ove von Spaeth, has published his explorations in five volumes about Moses. The books present well-documented information which reverses the traditional conception of Moses and his life.
           Moses, was he an Egyptian and thus not a Jew? - Indeed, who was Moses really?           Ove von Spaeth's extremely systematic and detailed research discloses that the lives of Moses and Senmut, the Egyptian Architect, are surprisingly identical.

          The amount of identical events is simply overwhelming. Indications concerning identity questions are supported by Ove von Spaeth's books with their extensive collection of exact source exemplifications and actual parallel facts about the status, the positions, and the works of Senmut and Moses.
          The potential of this intelligent, creative, innovative initiator, Senmut, who was closely connected to the royal family, is in so many ways identical to many specific areas exactly according to what the Rabbinical Writings and other ancient sources inform about Moses' varied talents and actions, and thus - also according to the Bible - he had the title, "The Son of Pharaoh's Daughter".
          To see the connection between Senmut and Moses requires of course a starting point in respect of the natural scientific objective ideal as far as eliminating preconceived ideas are concerned, so that research can be done with a new view also on the displaced sources.

          The authors ability to see the connection between Senmut and Moses has of course required a starting point in respect of the natural scientific objective ideal as far as eliminating preconceived ideas are concerned, so that research can be done with a new view on the displaced sources also.

          Normally, the biblical research has so far been carried out as if Moses is only known in the biblical version. Thus hitherto in the research of this lines by and large all Egyptian, Greek, Roman, Indian, and Arab traditions, and the records of the oldest Church fathers, have mostly been restrained as disturbing elements.
          Ove von Spaeth's book-series is a genuinely good foundation for the teaching about Moses. - You can download the folder "Assassinating Moses" ("Attentatet på Moses") as a pdf-file. (For reading the file the programme Acrobat Reader should be used - in case, you can get it from www.adobe.com - and it is free).
          The material can be downloaded by clicking the pdf-file: http://www.visdomsnettet.dk/pdf/Attentatet-paa-Moses-VisdomsRejser-Esoterisk-egyptologi.pdf

Erik Ansvang, writer, lecturer, course instructor, guide for Egypt-touring - http://www.visdomsnettet.dk/a-397/  -  (Spring,2006)

Well written, but also "disturbing", said a Doctor of Divinity who reviewed the contents of Ove von Spaeth's book, "The Enigmatic Son of Pharaoh's Daughter". As the book describes, it must exactly have been disturbing for ancient people to have had to be part of some of their scary rituals of antuquity, of which many apparently were continued through history almost up till present times.
          But it is also extremely exciting to "re-discover" the connected way of thinking behind this part of early culture history. When reading, the idea may even appear that perhaps a good deal of other subjects from such circumstances has not been included in the book, as certain standards of ancient way of thinking might seem too extreme to a modern public.

Asmus Koefoed, DK-2200 Copenhagen N, - asmus@svanenet.dk - (30 January, 2001)

::   OvS's reply.   Your impression is not at all wrong - you may even have found out how it is, e.g. in Chapter 13 of the book; originally I had written an excursus about a similar subject, but  some lack of space made it easier to sacrifice this text. However, you will find it on this link: 
http://www.moses-egypt.net/book-series/ovs_related-articles-b_en.asp#1
          - and I want to emphasize that the text is actually based on exact facts to which perspectives appear from the connection, some of which by nature may be hypothetical. However, the connection, which is there, is extremely interesting.
          Also in all other parts of the book examples demonstrate that certain traces of forgotten or neglected ancient traditions may still exist in later history and all the way up till modern times.
          Ove von Spaeth

          "... Hi Osiris - look at this link http://www.moses-egypt.net/star-map/senmut-files_survey_en.asp  from Ove von Spaeth - a very, very close friend of mine - look at his webpage and the starmap ... It is amazing so much you know about all this. Tomorrow I will write you something - your way is so different ...".

Ulla, (Ulla Runchel, Join Date: Mar 2005. - Ulla Runchel's own homepage: http://www.forvandlingskuglen.webbyen.dk ) - Shirley MacLaine.com - #51 - Location: u. - Posts: 815 -  http://www.shirleymaclaine.com/encounter/showthread.php?p=696016#post696016  -  06-27-2006,  02:44 PM  -  (27.Jun.2006)

-
          "... Yes, Ulla... It is from this web-site that I was able to get the details from this same star-map that I posted earlier (05-19-2006, 04:46 PM - #17) in this thread! ...".

Michael, The Valkyrie (Join Date: July 2002)  Shirley MacLaine.com - #52 - Location: D - Posts: 2,771 - http://www.shirleymaclaine.com/encounter/showthread.php?t=201811&page=6&pp=10  -  06-27-2006,  04:55 PM  -  (27.Jun.2006)

-
          "... Hi Osiris. This link is specially for you ... so you can see what he (Ove von Spaeth) has updated - synchron again, again; - he has written 5 books on Moses, master-pieces:  http://www.moses-egypt.net/star-map/senmut4-history_en.asp  ...".

Ulla, (Ulla Runchel, Join Date: Mar 2005) - Shirley MacLaine.com - #55 - Location: u. - Posts: 820 -  http://www.shirleymaclaine.com/encounter/showthread.php?p=696370#post696370  -  06-30-2006,  04:29 AM   -  (30.Jun.2006)

-
          "... Thank You For This, Ulla! This link for Ove von Spaeth is Excellent! - Senmut was Hatshepsut's Vizier. He was possessed of Great Knowledge and Power. Unfortunately he was bereft of Wisdom. The Star Maps in his tomb, and all temple constructions he involved himself with were all designed to insure his place in Eternity. ..."

Michael, The Valkyrie (Join Date: July 2002) Shirley MacLaine.com - #56 - Location: D - Posts:  2,817 - http://www.shirleymaclaine.com/encounter/showthread.php?p=696370#post696370 -  06-30-2006,  10:39 AM   -  (30.Jun.2006)

(Editor's note: Ulla Runchel is the author of "The Crystal Universe", (2003), - Universal Growth Publishing, Phoenix, Arizona)

The published books of the series "Assassinating Moses" were an exiting experience - on which I want to express my thanks. Many new and strange things of the contents you can follow with a great interest and being truely amazed.
          In this connection I would be glad to find an answer concerning Vol. 2, "The Enigmatic Son of Pharaoh's Daughter".  This book is mentioning a (surveying-)line of sight from the centre axis of the Great Temple of Karnak (Luxor) crossing the the Nile, following several kilometres and uniting with the centre axis of Hatshepsut's temple at the mountain in front of the Kings' Valley. Is there any knowledge about this line to be ascribed to a special meaning?

Ole Henningsen, Hojrebyvej 59, 4920 Sollested, - oleh@post1.tele.dk  -  (22.Mar.2002)

::   OvS's reply.    The special axis is hardly common knowledge. I have made it pictured on a map in my book - Vol. 2, page 64. And the interesting background conditions concerning the sky, sun, moon, and stars relating to its direction I have especially explained on one of the present web-site's pages concerning the Senmut Star Map, the page: "On History" section 4.
          Ove von Spaeth

          Factbites.com - http://www.factbites.com/topics/1487-BC.  - Topic: 1487 BC
- Factbites, created by Rapid Intelligence, Sydney, Australia. - Computational linguistics, data mining, data warehousing and artificial intelligence - a search engine more for content analysis than link popularity. - Other credits of ours: AskTheBrain and NationMaster free educational resource and the world's largest statistical database on comparing counties.
_

On Vol. 2 of the book-series Assassinating Moses
          -  This is a well-articulated, thought-provoking text that is very enjoyable reading and which should interest any avid reader of ancient history for scientific and personal reasons alike.
          -  Eventually - by a historically well known coup in 1488/1487 BC - this new Pharaoh seized the complete power from Hatshepsut, who was also his father's sister, his mother-in-law, as well as his pro forma step-mother.
          -  The star map in question constitutes the adornment of a tomb construction which belonged to the grand vizier and calendar chief of Queen Hatshepsut.
www.moses-egypt.net/book2/moses2-introduc_en.asp  (2521 words)

Factbites, - Where results make sense  -  http://www.factbites.com/topics/1487-BC  -  (spring,2007)
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Other credits include NationMaster.com online database and visualization tool for comparing countries - featured in The New York Times, CNN, BBC - recommended by the Harvard Business School and the American Library Association.

I find Ove von Spaeth's observations very interesting, although I'm not well-versed in astronomy.
In my own book, "The Exodus Chronicles: Beliefs, Legends & Rumors from Antiquity Regarding the Exodus of the Jews from Egypt", (2003), I, too, suggested Senenmut as being a candidate for Moses. This was based on the theory of "a very important man who disappears and was not buried in either of his tombs".
          But now I am no longer so sure that Senenmut did disappear from Egypt, that he was not buried and that his mummy hasn't been found. All of this I discuss here:
http://www.geocities.com/scribelist/Senenmut.html
          In brief, is it possible to ascertain if a certain mummy is the son of Rahotep and Hat nofret, the parents of Senenmut. Theoretically--yes.

Marianne Luban, writer, - mluban@netzero.... - sent via "Authordata-2 - scientific achievements by Ove von Spaeth" - (14.Mar.2008)

Marianne Luban is the author of "The Pharaoh's Barber", Pacific Moon Publications, 2008 - www.amazon.com/Pharaohs-Barber-Marianne-Luban/dp/0972952411 - also, Marianne Luban: "The Exodus Chronicles: Beliefs, Legends & Rumors from Antiquity Regarding the Exodus of the Jews from Egypt", Pacific Moon Publications, 2003 - www.amazon.com/Exodus-Chronicles-Beliefs-Antiquity-Regarding/dp/0972952403

- - -
NOTE from webmaster, moses-egypt.net: see Ove von Spaeth's replying data-info  below, in following text: "Senmut was a victim to the greatest major eradication ...".

Senmut (Senenmut) was a victim to the greatest major eradication of a name in all history of Egypt.
Earlier in his life, when being the Grand Vizier to the king (who was Queen/Pharaoh Hatshepsut), Senmut soon held more than 20 of the superior offices in Egypt and at least 80 titles.
          To have many titles was not unknown - however, the majority of Senmut's titles were not to embellish but because his capacity was immense - so besides being the Grand Vizier he was the country's main architect and constructor, Minister of Foreign Affairs, chief of the calendar and astronomical observations, etc. Later - after his mysterious disappearance - his numerous posts close to the king had to be divided into many viziers' offices.
          Senmut disappeared - in the same year as of Moses' flight, 1494 BC - and the new Pharaoh Tuthmosis III took the power from Hatshepsut by a historical coup and gradually destroyed most of Senmut's statues and inscriptions. It reveals the intention that all important memories of Senmut's (Moses') identity were to be deleted. He had been eliminated as the Pharaoh-to-be - he was not to be known by present or by future.

Destruction would not have taken place if Senmut/Moses had not been of royal descent
The impression was to be that he had not existed at all. So, all over Egypt, Senmut's (Moses') name was deleted during countrywide damnation memoriae, to a total extent never seen before!
          Senmut's names and works were subject to a collective, deliberate, comprehensive destruction. It was the most extensive eradiation of names in all history of Egypt! Although headed by Pharaoh himself (Tuthmosis III) and his staff this extensive destruction would obviously not have caught so much attention and effort if Senmut/Moses had not been of royal descent and initiated as heir to the throne.
          Destruction of the Senmut name inscriptions and statues meant real eradication. This was an extra way to destroy his existence reaching much further than his earthly life, i.e. the feared "second death", when all memories have vanished.
          In Hatshepsut's Deir el-Bahari temple Senmut's name was deleted in 66 of the "hidden" wainscots.
          All over Egypt, in Nubia, and even at Sinai, Tuthmosis III's helpers erased the Senmut name of most of Senmut's statues, portraits, and inscriptions.
No doubt that this important figure had escaped - so much trouble would not have taken place if he had been a deceased and/or had been thoroughly mummified.

Senmut's profile has the outlines of the Tuthmosis family
The one of the pictures with Senmut painted on the wall of his second tomb has apparently been destroyed, but mainly the cheek and the chin as if the goal was to remove the distinguished royal beard. And in this case it was an important part to destroy.
          Some graffitis are showing Senmut with dimples or double chin stripes added - it was a common symbol of wealth - Senmut in his prime. So, these were not portraits and cannot be used for comparison with mummies with dimples etc.
          Re-use of the few spared portraits have been easily established by the new ruler - cf. W. Stevenson Smith in his "The Art and Architecture of Ancient Egypt" (New Haven 1981, p. 226) making precise statements on their looks, "... Senmut's profile has the outlines of the Tuthmosis family. ..."
          This supports the total impression of Senmut as Hatshepsut's son, because his looks resembled very much that of other members of the royal family. And the changes of the pictures of Senmut in Hatshepsut's so-called red chapel (at the great temple in Karnak) are so revealing that this fact may have contributed to cause the demolition of the chapel soon after.

The image manipulation
Only pictures precisely showing Senmut were damaged by the iconoclastic riot. In order to be sure to win, Senmut "backed two horses" by being portrayed both as the partly neutral crown prince and as Senmut - and yet he lost. The fact that a few of his names were not deleted meant that in Duat, the underworld, he was granted at that place a tiny chance of existence instead of a complete eradication.
          A grown-up, young man dressed in a princely and even pharaonic ornate is depicted in the Deir el-Bahari temple, in a scene showing Hatshepsut's expedition to Punt. This cannot be the person who later became Tuthmosis III, because he was only a minor, a little child, at the time of this expedition, which he has never been associated with, whereas Senmut was its organizer.
          Another relief in this Hatshepsut temple shows - incompletely - a young royal couple (often the Crown Princess Neferure is suggested as being one of them - and also she disappeared suddenly from the scene), where the young man cannot be the later Tuthmosis III due to his very young age. However, the motive may very well show Senmut/Moses as a pharaonic prince.
          Thus, the tactics of Tuthmosis III could have been to spare the relief and let it suggest that he was the person depicted as the crown prince. Compare the principle corresponding to that of Tuthmosis III's when he transformed Hatshepsut's years of reign to his own years of reign - only to create an official pre-history as a crown prince. In fact, most of his young years he spent as priest at a temple in the north at the Nile delta, according to his earliest autobiographical inscriptions.

Ove von Spaeth, writer, researcher - the Zenith Project, - topical: www.moses-egypt.net/book2/moses2-inform_en.asp, copyright © 2000 - (&: March,2006)

The above information is from Ove von Spaeth's meticulous archaeological and textual documentation in his book, "The Enigmatic Son of Pharaoh's Daughter" - on Moses' Identity and Mystery Re-evaluated - vol.2 of the series "Assassinating Moses"


- - -
NOTE, further data on the subject is given by the author Ove von Spaeth in the following message (The Disappeared Traces - Rediscovered) below.

Many people have looked for clues concerning the similarities concerning Senmut and Moses - cf. also data in the answer to Marianne Luban in above mail. - From the book by Ove von Spaeth, "The Enigmatic Son of Pharaoh's Daughter", some of the results in short form can be seen here:

When Senmut disappeared, many of his traces were destructed. - Correspondingly the Egyptian traces of Moses seem to disappear, although he had a high-ranking status and therefore almost inevitably must have left some traces behind, e.g. in inscriptions, graves, etc.
          The astonishing similarity, summing up the very many special circumstances, available from many sources - recognizable and equally important for both Senmut and Moses, the following is possible to re-establish concerning Senmut-Moses. More than 30 very personal and specific circumstances identical with Senmut and Moses - in closest detail - are concrete facts:
          a)  When - simultaneously in the same country at the same court, two so similar persons with the same unusual positions and extraordinary expertise were in existence - they appear not as different persons, but persons of one and same identity.
          b)  Both "Senmut, the favourite of the Daughter of Pharaoh" and "Moses, the favourite of Pharaoh's Daughter", disappeared suddenly from Egypt - and left behind the same kind of high-ranking posts within exactly the same time, even the same year, in Egyptian history. They have particular identical fates going as far as specific personal details; and the Senmut name might have been just one of many Egyptian names of young Moses, as he as a high-status person had many names - many of these mentioned in the Rabbinical Writings.
          c)  Young Moses was - according to the Rabbinical Writings - leading a military expeditions into Nubia (Sudan) - and the young Senmut did the same.
          d)  Moses had great knowledge about the stars and established the Hebrew calendar - and Senmut was Egypt's calendar chief and showed his astronomical knowledge by his unique star map.
          e)  But especially this: would Senmut in his tomb show recording of the stars' positions in the sky at a special time, a moment identical with the episode of Moses in the ark on the River Nile, if he was not Moses?
          f)  Traditionally a queen could rule on behalf of her son, but not - as claimed about Hatshepsut - on behalf of a nephew. This example is one of many showing that the nephew, the later Tuthmosis III, was not originally educated or chosen to become Pharaoh.
          g)  On the Royal Titles:  it is a known fact in Egyptology that the designation "Pharaoh's Daughter" (Egyptian: sat nisut) was a title given only to crown princesses, who also kept it when they became queen - and many inscriptions show Hatshepsut having this, also from the Bible well-known, title.
          h)  In ancient Egypt a Crown Prince or Crown Princess would always have - as Hatshepsut in fact had - the title bjtj (bithia) of the representative rulership to Lower Egypt. In the Rabbinical Writings the Pharaoh's Daugther in question is called by the name Bithia which, surprisingly, in Hebrew means "God's Daughter" - again, in fact, being one of Hatshepsut's important titles.
          i)  Senmut's name means 'the mother's brother' which is no peculiar name if, as in this case, it is a royal title. - Correspondingly or parallel to this, the Bible mentions Moses as son of "the father's sister". This title can be seen connected to the fact that Hatshepsut was her father's (Tuthmosis I) royal co-ruler, the way a queen often was. And this status was described as his (Pharaoh's) "sister".
          j)  Senmut's (foster)mother was an employee, a wet-nurse at the pharaonic court - and in the Bible Moses was partly brought up also by a wet-nurse, in the abbreviated biblical account confused with his mother's name, Jochebed, which was another of Hatshepsut's titles, meaning 'Queen of Heaven', often used when Hatshepsut represented the goddess Isis.
          ... etc., etc. .....

Ove von Spaeth, writer, researcher - the Zenith Project, - topical:  www.moses-egypt.net/book2/moses2-inform_en.asp,  copyright © 2000  -  (March,2008)

The above information is from Ove von Spaeth's meticulous archaeological and textual documentation in his book, "The Enigmatic Son of Pharaoh's Daughter" - on: Moses' Identity and Mystery Re-evaluated - vol.2 of the series "Assassinating Moses"

Visdomsnettet.dk - The enigma about the real fate of Moses as the Great Initiated - http://www.visdomsnettet.dk/a-397/
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Moses - the great inaugurated. Read about Ove von Spaeth's exploration of the ancient Rabbinical Writings and the writers of Antiquity revealing Moses' later hidden role as Prince of Egypt - and the documents even mention his insight in magic and stellar world.

          Moses was a historical figure? Or was he a mythical figure? New and thorough research on Moses reveals a very different and well-documented reality in ancient Egypt. Moses was Egyptian, he was also named Tutmosis and another one of the names was Senmut.
          Who was Moses? - Not least, one question in particular appears - what have Senmut and Moses to do with one another?

          The mysterious Senmut:  It happened around 3,500 years ago. The place was Egypt which was then being ruled by the female Pharaoh Hatshepsut. And the main character was the mysterious master builder and sgrand vezire Senmut whose life have always been a mystery to Egyptologists. Senmut became known in history due to his architectural masterpiece - Hatshepsut's temple at the West Bank of Thebes (Luxor) and his genious star map.
          New and thorough research in this field reveals a very different and well-documented reality in Egypt of this ancient era. It has been carried out by Danish researcher Ove von Spaeth, presenting convincing conclusions with solid basis in historical and astronomical studies combined with many years of intensive studies in archeology, anthropology, ancient languages, religions, history, and the Egyptian traditions and mystery teachings and mythology.

          Ove von Spaeth's incredible systematic and detailed research reveals that Senmut, the vezire of Pharaoh's Daughter, and Moses, Moses, the Son of Pharaoh's Daughter, are surprisingly alike in their lives. The amount of overlap of events is simply overwhelming.
          Evidence of the identity issue is reinforced by his extensive collection of books with specific sources on parallel facts about the status, offices and works both of Senmut and Moses. The potential of the intelligent, creative, developing and entrepreneurial Senmut who were closely associated with the royal family, fits in many specific areas precisely to what the Rabbinical scriptures and other ancient sources tell about Moses' many talents and deeds while he, according to the Bible, bore the title "Son of Pharaoh's Daughter".

          To be able to see the connection between Moses and Senmut it is of course required that you try to respect the scientific ideal of objectivity as far as to disregard preconceived ideas and to research with a new view also at the formerly ignored sources. Normally, it is often seen that research is carried out as if Moses is known in biblical texts only.
          Thus in the current research almost all Egyptian, Greek, Roman, Indian and Arab handed down sources and the records by the earliest Fathers of Church are kept away as disturbing elements. In this article it is obviously not possible to present the overwhelming amount of data that can documentate the new theories, but they are accessible to everybody in Ove von Spaeths book-series.
          Ove von Spaeth's so systematic research is a cornucopia of enlightening information about the life and deed of Senmuts/Moses and is transferred to us in a vivid language. An attempt to reproduce the colorful life of Moses as a prince going through a pharaonic educating will hardly be an easy task. The volumen does not allow this. But it was indeed a period when the power and influence of the priesthood grew and challenged the pharaoh's power. It placed Crown Prince Senmut/Moses in the center of the event.

Erik Ansvang, writer, lecturer, course instructor, guide for Egypt-touring -  VisdomsNettet  -  http://www.visdomsnettet.dk/a-397/  -  (Spring,2002)

Background in Discussion:   "... The character of Moses and the story of the flight out of Egypt are now considered by most scholars to have been elaborated during the Jews' exile in Mesopotamia. Ditto for the Tablets of the Law, the idea of which also probably originated in Mesopotamia where royal laws were promulgated on clay tablets. Unless you of course do have (independent) sources showing that Moses existed. ..." 
     Menj, (Joined: 05 Jan 2003 - Location: Paris, France) Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2003 4:16 am

Just because there is no proof at the moment does not mean that Moses did not exist. Here is an interesting link:  http://www.moses-egypt.net/book-series/moses-survey_en.asp

ohmyru, Faith Freedom Org, Faith Freedom International, Malaysian Issue ... http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum2/viewtopic.php?t=5401&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=66&sid=83685ed8114be49650e4d6763f971e54 - bob - Joined: 19 Jun 2002, Posts: 625, Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2003  6:10 am  - (9.Jul.2003)

The 3,500 year old star-map which decorates one of the ceilings in the tomb of the great Senmut (or Senenmut) near Luxor (Thebes), apparently demonstrates a previously unknown aspect of the astronomical situation in Egypt around 1,500 BC. This revelation is the result of investigations, the full report of which was published in the International Journal of the History of Science, Centaurus (Ove von Spaeth, "Dating the Oldest Egyptian Star Map," vol. 42:3 (2000) : 159-179).

          The study concludes as follows: The Senmut map depicts an exceptional event in the sky. This seems to have produced a prototype for all later pictures of similar celestial events - but with one exception: In the first depiction, in the time of Senmut, Mars is retrograde in the west when the other planets assemble around Sirius in the east.

          So far has been demonstrated:  1)  The Senmut maps contain a cosmological and astro-mythological expression not only as decoration - as hitherto assumed - but also as a picture of a particular and unique situation in the sky. -  2)  This configuration of the sky can be exactly dated: 1534 BC.

          In addition the star maps may contribute to a better dating of their creator Senmut and also of the contemporary Egyptian pharaohs - at least accurate to within a decade. - Author's Web Page:  www.moses-egypt.net

D.I. Loizos, Professor in History, Editor-in-Chief, - Anistoriton Journal of History, Archaeology, & ArtHistory, Vol. 6/2002 (ISSN 1108-4081), - Anistoriton History Library, Athens, Greece - www.anistor.co.hol.gr/english/enback/v021.htm -  & http://users.hol.gr/~ianlos/v021.htm  & http://users.hol.gr/~dilos/anistor/vpoints/v021.htm  -  (7 March 2002)

"For the Record" (ed. David Moyer, New York), on Publications:
          - A lengthy illustrated article titled "Dating the Oldest Egyptian Star Map" by Ove von Spaeth (concerning the astronomical ceiling of the Deir el Bahari tomb of Hatshepsut's minion, Senenmut) has been published in Centaurus: The International magazine of Mathematics, Science, and Technology (Vol. 42, No. 3, 2000, Munksgaard, Copenhagen).

David Moyer, ed., - KMT Modern Journal of Ancient Egypt, Vol.11, No.4, p.10  -  (Winter 2000-2001)

EvC Forum All Forums Science Forums Miscellaneous Topics in Creation/Evolution
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-- concerning  Message 85 of 113 (23057). 03-11-2002 06:01 PM, by TrueCreation  - Creation Versus Evolution Forum, Posts: 1708, From: Riverview, FL, USA, -
here is the reply by quicksink:

quote (from your words):
here is another link to another site regarding eclipses and dating of ancient civilizations:
http://www.nyu.edu/classes/wright/spring97/chron.htm
"I love this typical delaying tactic - pretend to be interested in something that completely demolishes your argument - but since you asked… :
http://www.skepticfiles.org/evolut/answered.htm
an excellent site that addresses this and many other issues. Do a search on google as well.
There's another that does not touch the issue of creationism versus evolution":
http://www.moses-egypt.net/star-map/senmut2-faq_en.asp

--The first one was unable to load, it seems the link is wrong, though the second link I can comment on. It does not have any dispute and is evident by its own words that it does not conflict with the date of the flood in any of these quotes where it mentions a date:

q (from moses-egypt.net/star-map/senmut2):
and even for a fair dating of one of the oldest Chinese records of an eclipse (1050 BC). Stephenson's "Historical Eclipses" is p.t. one of the best publications in this field, but still it must be borne in mind that the Senmut star map is 500-800 years further back in time.

--Looks like I have no problem with the Chinese records as of yet either.

q (from moses-egypt.net/star-map/senmut2):
Furthermore, one of the oldest known Egyptian presentations of a planetary position, places Jupiter close to the decan (celestial sector of 10-degrees) of Sirius. This dates back some 4200 years, and is recorded on a fragment of a starclock-diagram depicted inside a coffin-lid (on Heny's coffin) - one of the traditional methods of recording.

q (from moses-egypt.net/star-map/senmut2):
A thousand years before the time of Senmut, the astronomer-priests were developing such skills by constant observation of the firmament, which necessitated the keeping of accurate records, especially with regard to calculating celestial positions and cyclic phenomena.

q (from moses-egypt.net/star-map/senmut2):
The observation that the Senmut-map presents a concrete celestial conjunction 1534 BC seems to be supported by the subsequent maps in the following centuries demonstrating that these conditions are reflected here, too.

q (from moses-egypt.net/star-map/senmut2):
Concerning the above mentioned tms n hntt on the Senmut star map - cf. the treatise's paragraph 3 - the following note may be added: The early existence of several variants of this expression is well known, e.g. tms n hnt and tms n hnty etc., several of which go back to the star clock diagrams belonging to the early coffin groups (ca. 2,200 BC). However, the precise combination in our case, tms n hntt , seems to be found on the Senmut star map for the first time.

q (from moses-egypt.net/star-map/senmut2):
Given that there is no safe way of extrapolating so far back in time, it would of course be risky to give the exact hour of an eclipse 3,500 years ago, as has been the case in the paper discussed. (It was intended to serve as an additional illustration of how precise the information of the Senmut map might be). As stated above, it is of no significance for the basic dating of this star map. In any case, the general positions in the sky for the Sun, Moon, and all the planets are correct and unambiguous.

--Nothing in this paper challenges the date of the flood, but actually, as I said earlier, it was an interesting read and was informative, not to mention appealing to the dating of the Flood. [/quote]
y'know what - I was wrong… I was misinformed. Sorry.

quote (from your words):
"I have, and I do not understand how this could support the flood model…"
--See my quote on this in this post. If you have any comments or think that there is anything that exists in the record you can challenge it. It is a perfect supportation of the Flood model.

--please elaborate.

quote (from your words):
"absolutely. But when you have two theories side-by-side, the one that explains the facts the most consistently using the least amount of unnatural phenomena and speculation wins the battle for the hearts of the scientist."

--(Creationism it is!).

quicksink, - Message 93 of 113 (23064) - 03-12-2002 05:07 AM
http://www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/dm.cgi?action=msg&f=12&t=37&m=97  -  (12.Mar.2002)

          I am very interested in your discovery of the Jupiter and Saturn conjunction compared to Sirius of the Egyptian Senmut's star map of 1534 B.C. In the same year also a Jupiter-Saturn conjunction took place. I see no connection between the Egyptian and the Babylonian ancient astronomy (not before circa 400 B.C.), they worked with two different reference systems. I do not know the Egyptian hieroglyphs, but I would like to find the Egyptian interpretation or "symbolic idea" of the two conjunctions mentioned.
          I wish you a continued success with your research work.

Gustav Teres SJ, Bibel Exegetician lic.art., and Astronomer lic.scient.,
Oslo, Norway  -  &  -  Vatican Observatory, Castel Gandolfo  -  (22.Oct.2001)

          "... I would not be surprised if the author has indeed misread passages of the Senmut ceiling ...".
          "... it becomes evident that the redating of the Senmut ceiling star map is only one episode in a larger project of redating the whole chronology of the New Kingdom Period of Egypt that the author plans to publish in a 5-volume study on the life and times of Moses. ... As the author believes that the Pharaoh's daughter who raised Moses was the future Queen Hatshepsut, then all historical dates linked to Hatshepsut and other 18th Dynasty rulers would have to be shifted backwards in time to make them correspond with his Moses chronology ...".

Robert H. van Gent, DrSn., - Faculty of Physics and Astronomy, Utrecht University, - History of Astronomy Discussion Group, - http://wvnvm.wvnet.edu/htbin/listarch?hastro-l&a:scmcc.archives - Message No.165 & No.179  -  (20-21 January 2002)

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NOTE (web ed.):  See, below, Ove von Spaeth's commments to Conman and van Gelder.

          "... It seems that Ove von Spaeth found a star alignment he liked to fit his Moses theory and simply superimposed it on Senmut's ceiling. ...It seems to have been assumed that all these ceilings are meant to be photographic representations of the sky, possibly stylized, possibly erroneous, but essentially "astronomical" charts. I find this assumption to be inconsistent with the ancient Egyptian culture ...".
          "... What you choose to believe as a matter of faith is one thing, but there is absolutely no evidence to support the historical existence of Moses. There have been dozens of candidates suggested ranging over a period of time of several hundred years. There is no archaeological evidence to support the Biblical story of Exodus ...".

Joanne Conman, Maine, - History of Astronomy Discussion Group, - http://wvnvm.wvnet.edu/htbin/listarch?hastro-l&a:scmcc.archives - Message No.183 & No.187  -  (21 January 2002)

::   OvS's Comments.  -  Debate and criticism are indispensable to science and research. Acknowledgements from esteemed scientists, scholars, and other experts have been productive in the actual case, indeed. However, the invaluable asset of criticism can be misdirected by incorrect quotations from the paper under discussion, and even by "references" to alleged statements, which were never made in the paper. But once entered into the debate, such tend to remain in circulation.

          The two contributions, above - from Conman and van Gent - are from an international Newsgroup for the History of Astronomy and joining the discussions on the internet among researchers, scholars, and scientists concerning Ove von Spaeth's scientific treatise on dating the world's oldest star map. About 25 different letters relating this matter were distributed world wide to all members of the group during the first months of 2002. - Unfortunately, solely based on accounts and comments the two contributors' remarks also contain serious misunderstandings. Just stating their opinions: they 'think', and 'suppose', and 'assume' - but show no concrete facts and data.
          Besides from appearing not to be too well informed or experienced on the special points in this special case, they pronounce their verdict in absentia  having never proven nor documented any error in the paper in question - and yet their newsgroup-talk later has been incompetently referred to as if the opinions here were a real "source". In their own letters on the net Conman and van Gent admit neglecting to consult the primary source, i.e. they had never read the original text/treatise.

          Xerox copies of the treatise can be requested from library article-bases: The reference-No. is ISSN 0008-8994, "Centaurus International Magazine of the History of Mathematics, Science, and Technology", Vol. 42;3, 2000, pp. 159-179. - Or the treatise may be downloaded at the web page: The Senmut Star Map Decoded .

          Furthermore, some of the sceptics (not quoted here) wish to present a somewhat different result (concerning a solar eclipse) based on calculations from certain formulae - e.g. in "The Nautical Almanac", or PC astronomy-programmes - but without knowing the existence of alternative formulae: differences of these formulae are due to hitherto unsolved problems concerning the Delta-T factors.
          Besides, in the treatise the eclipse is of no significance as regards the basic dating of this star map. - (A further criticism cites the impossibility of a "total solar eclipse", in spite of the fact that the treatise does not mention a total eclipse).
          Some of the critics are concerned with alleged Egyptology problems which are non-existent - and they ignore that the treatise's star map contains identifications which previously have been recognized, especially in Neugebauer & Parker's authoritative work "Egyptian Astronomical Texts, I-III".

          A problem appear to occur because some of the critics openly substitute their own opinions and considerations for concrete facts and data. - Furthermore, they forget that the treatise on Senmut's Star Map is published in the esteemed "Centaurus International Magazine of the History of Mathematics, Science, and Technology". Prior to publication in this journal, as required, the treatise has been peer-reviewed by experts. - The same rules and principles apply to "Aristoriton Journal of History, Archaeology and ArtHistory", which published parts of the treatise. Here too, it was peer-reviewed by specialists in the relevant fields and/or topics and, further, by the Editorial Board.

          In addition, authorities on the history of astronomy and Egyptology: - Professor Owen Gingerich, Harvard-Smithsonian Institute, - Dr. Sir Patrick Moore, astronomer, BBC Science Editor, - and Professor Dr. Erik Hornung, Basel Universität, - all with a special knowledge and long-term interest concerning the Senmut star map, have acknowledged - independently and voluntarily - the star map dating project and the value of what it suggests. And no sceptics have proved any calculation wrong concerning the general positions in the sky for the Sun, Moon, and the planets - they are all correct and unambiguous.

          In any case, extensive answers are presented on:  FAQ: Dating the Oldest Egyptian Star Map .
          Ove von Spaeth

Background:  A treatise by Ove von Spaeth - documenting an exact dating of the oldest Egyptian star chart - and by BBC's Science editor, the British astronomer Dr Sir Patrick Moore, being described as a "major advance".
          The treatise was published in the "Centaurus International Magazine of the History of Mathematics, Science and Technology" (Vol. 42:3, July-August 2000, pp. 159-179). In addition, it is - in an easy to read form - separately presented (by permission) as an Appendix in Ove von Spaeth's work, in the Volume 2: "The Enigmatic Son of Pharaoh's Daughter".
          The finding in question has been considered, by some experts, as controversial - and very often from those sides it have not been discussed in a proper scientific manner.
          Circumstances concerning these attitudes are now being commented upon by Mathematician and Philosopher Jurij Moskvitin:

- This is for your information. The so far positive, interested statements at Russian websites regarding your thesis on the astronomic dating of Senmut's star chart have now received an unusual comment. At that other Russian website the following is stated - by these words, according to my hasty translation of Dimitri Guschev's original Russian text:

- by Dimitrij Guschev:
( http://hbar.phys.msu.su/gorm/wwwboard/messages47/17702.html ) - 2 October 2002:
          "... Датировка старейшей египетской звездной карты ..." etc., - i.e. "...it (Ove von Spaeth's paper) was also examined in the light of the history of astronomy. The author, like Fomenko, attacking the problem by having only a faint understanding of the symbolism in the Egyptian astronomy, as well as the author entertains his own particular ideas about "correct chronology". Besides, it shows too that the author lies concerning the astronomical calculations of the planets.
          As regards what may be said of the predictions of 3500 years old eclipses - almost anything may be said. Errors in the exact determination of some certain DT for that time would amount to some two-three hours, which does not permit to determine whether the eclipse at the given region was a full one.
          The nearest more or less successful determination of an eclipse which we may take for granted took place 500 years later. And so it turns out that the suggested eclipses have not been visible in Egypt - in spite of the most clever attempts of narrowing the fluctuations of DT. (A correction of 12 hours would be needed) ...".

There is nothing to be done about the fact that Dimitri Guschev has not taken into consideration the reservations you yourself point out regarding the accuracy of the astronomic calculations. And that he is missing a point somehow. Otherwise the precise reservations would have provided sufficient grounds for wringing the neck of that Guschev case (Guschev in Russian means "Mr Goose").
          The reason why he takes such a pessimistic approach is incomprehensible, but perhaps it is because you did not with sufficient deference contact him as being the great expert that he - according to his text about Egyptian astronomic symbolism - believes himself to be. When considering the existence of an original star chart that indicates the occurrence of a solar eclipse 3500 years ago, one should be allowed to focus one's attention on the closest - chronologically and geographically - solar eclipse that actually occurred. Why else would the indication of a solar eclipse be inserted into a star chart?
          The thesis on Senmut's star chart has raised an interesting discussion. In terms of antedating or 'dating-back' - since childhood we've been believing in the infallibility of astronomic professionals, and then along comes Ove von Spaeth who reminds us of there is an enormous dispersion margin over a period of just 3500 years. You have engendered quite a row among astronomers.
          If nothing else, your work will lead to some interesting clarifications - which is more than most books have managed to achieve.

Jurij Moskvitin, Philosopher, Mathematician, Writer, - c/o Gomide, Rua Voluntarios da Patria 166, apt.1302, 22270-010 Rio de Janeiro, Botafogo, Brazil  -  (9.jan.2003)

          I hope my link to the Astro-Discussion - did you good.  Don't worry about those people - they like to show off more than we do - and they know far less <smile>. They will glue you to arguments back and forth - that will waste your time and later you will say "What a waste of my time when I could have worked on my books!"
          As with all significant books, your book is bound to have a few errors - publish it anyway.

Ray Kaliss,  - www.enneadofmoses.com  (Enead of Moses) -  Sent: 08-03-2002 16:06  - distribution@moraff...  - (8.Mar.2002).

В свежем номере журнала по истории науки Centaurus 2000, vol. 42, pp. 159-179. Опубликована статья Ove von Spaeth, "Dating the Oldest Egyptian Star Map".

Привожу начало:
          "The earliest known maps in Egypt are found as a main part of the decor in a tomb (No. TT 353) at Thebes on the West bank of the Nile. The tomb was constructed during the first half of the Egyptian 18 dynasty, probably about 1490 BC, and it belonged to Queen Hatshepsut's vizier and calendar registrar Senmut (or Senenmut).
          The Senmut maps, Fig.1, are almost 4 meters long. They are found on the southern and nothern panels of the ceiling, which is shaped as the inner part of a low-pitched roof of the burial chamber hewed out of the subterranean rock.
          The map on the southern panel proves to reflect a specific conjunction of planets around the longitude of Sirius. This particular configuration of planets actually occured in the sky about May 1534 BC. These characteristics of the maps have not been recognized before. Egyptologists identified the planets on the maps long ago, but the actual occurence of their configuration in the sky can now be verified through modern astronomical calculation."

          P.S. Помнится Дист обещал закрыть свой сайт если я найду древнее решение дендерского зодиака лучшее Фоменковского 18 века - я такое решение быстро нашел. Ждемс.

http://hbar.phys.msu.su/gorm/wwwboard/voprchr/981745387.htm  -  (09 Февраля 2001) (= 09 February 2001)

Thunderbolts Forum  - For discussion of Electric Universe and Plasma Cosmology  -  Board index ‹ New Insights and Mad Ideas - Bill McDonald's General Composite of the Roswell Spacecraft - http://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=3947&start=105   •  512 posts  •  Page 8 of 35

Beyond the boundaries of established science an avalanche of exotic ideas compete for our attention. Experts tell us that these ideas should not be permitted to take up the time of working scientists, and for the most part they are surely correct. But what about the gems in the rubble pile? By what ground-rules might we bring extraordinary new possibilities to light?
                                                                                              Moderators: arc-us, MGmirkin World-axis and Ancient Sky
http://www.moses-egypt.net/star-map/senmut5-world-axis_en.asp 
          (Excerpts of the Ove von Spaeth texts and findings:)
          The World-axis stretches from the Canopus Star via the Sirius Star up to Vega in the constellation Lyra, the sky's three brightest stars and they appear on a perfect, straight line. To compare with the Senmut map's axis - a cosmic factor thus resembling the obelisk symbolism presented in the Egyptian creation myth.
          This first, complete star map installed in Senmut's secret tomb had set a fashion of which in principle was copied during the following 1,500 years in Egypt. However, the special motive is originally the most dominant with Senmut: the World-axis.
          As this axis is established by the three most brilliantly shining stars of the sky, i.e., Canopus, Sirius, and Lyra/Vega: This phenomenon should not be confused with the axis of earth. Together these three stars show the straight line along the shining Milky Way across the sky.
          Although Senmut's star map has the oldest picture of the World-axis known anywhere, it is called "a mast" by the few Egyptologists who have noticed it. Maybe the only researcher known to have recognized the World-axis on the Senmut star map was Ernst Zinner, German astronomer, astronomy historian, and Manager of the Bamberg Observatory. In his treatise, "Die Sternbilder der alten Ägypter" in the 'Isis' Science Magazine (1933, Vol. 16, pp. 92-101), he mentions it directly as "the World-axis on the star map" - few years after the finding of the tomb and thus the map.
          Senmut's star map constitutes also a celestial portrait, which is the world's oldest known 'horoscope' in the original understanding of this term, which was to "read the sky" - especially in order to determine the time based on certain configurations of stars in the horizon. A close analysis of the inscriptions of Senmut's star map reveals that almost all planets are gathered around the Sirius Star and thus the World-axis. This indicated a certain date. ... ...
      (>>> Continue here: http://www.moses-egypt.net/star-map/senmut5-world-axis_en.asp )

Lizzie, - Sat Feb 05, 2011  5:14 pm  - (Posts: 2868 - Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2008 7:55 am) Bill McDonald's General Composite of the Roswell Spacecraft  -  http://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=3947&start=105   -  (5.Feb.2011).

I find your work on the Senmut star map most interesting, and will alert a physicist/astronomer friend of mine to see it too. I very much appreciate the offprint of your paper.
          Do you have an English publisher for your Moses research? If not, I may have some suggestions. - Regards,

John Anthony West, Egyptologist, author and explorer, New York, http://www.jawest.com/  -  (31 March 2002)

Velcome to: In the Hall of Maat, ... Reply To This Message - Re: So who are your "favorite" Pseudohistorians? ... /Annie Vedelsby, Date: May-17-04, 01:34 : Here pseudoscience is not so common - yet - but I would name Velikovsky, Osman, and a danish gentleman, Ove von Spaeth, who till now has written 4 books in which he is "proving" that Senmut = Moses. I believe that Joanne Conman has seen his paper about Senmut's astronomical ceiling. Greetings Annie Vedelsby. - Reply To This Message - etc. ...

Annie Vedelsby, - Newsgroup: In the Hall of Maat, - www.thehallofmaat.com/maat/read.php?f=1&i=199585&t=199411 - (17.May2004, 01:34)

Supplying Information, - by Ove von Spaeth:  - The following information is published in order to dispel a certain extreme superficiality, and this may help Annie Vedelsby and especially many other readers in similar situations. Unfortunately, the phenomenon is not uncommon in the academic circles.
          In addition - I would like to thank Vedelsby for giving me this opportunity to dismiss the hearsay in question that, for some years, is irresponsibly distributed concerning my research.

          Presenting Moses as a true historical person, was always the main feature of my series of books. However, this aim does not seem to fit in with Vedelsby's beliefs. Among Vedelsby's assumptions and suppositions, she tries to use Joanne Conman as a witness, - whereby Vedelsby "... believes ..." that "... Conman has seen his (OvS's) paper about Senmut's astronomical ceiling ...".
          If any of Vedelsby's beliefs had contained any correct information at all, then fate has not been good to several scientific institutions, e.g. the Jewish National & University Library, The Hebrew University of Jerusalem would then have been lacking this kind of "advice" before they started buying even the first copy of my books. Furthermore, similar "problem" hits The Danish Ministry of Foreign Affairs at its Development Aid Division, Danida, who recommends my books so that the education of the staff can be supplied with information on ancient Egyptian culture and history.

          Vedelsby asserts that I have "... written 4 books 'proving' Senmut = Moses ...". False! In my series of books, five volumes (ultimately) in all, only one volume deals with Senmut - containing new informative finds and discoveries indicating certain historical connections to Moses. Senmut is not mentioned elsewhere, at all. Moreover, I do never in any of my books use the expression "proves", because the books' contents are presented in the only way this material can be useful: in a proper scientific manner.

          Is Vedelsby familiar with the tradition of research applied to basic scientific principles? As a taxidermist at Zoological Museum at the University of Copenhagen, and a member of the Danish Society of Egyptology, she should know. Thus, are Vedelsby's assertions an illusion or deliberate desinformation?
          In terms of the last mentioned and according to examples of Vedelsby's lack of knowledge concerning my books, as she herself has just revealed, she can neither have actually read the books, nor can she have seen a message of Joanne Conman admitting never having read my paper concerning the dating of the Senmut astronomical ceiling (cf. messages of Conman for newsgroup Hastro-L, Jan.2002 - where, furthermore, Conman in advance ignores all facts and data presented in my paper). But, in spite of all this, Vedelsby knows 'for sure' that the author of the books is a "pseudo-historian", and she even knows this beforehand. In any case, this line of action or attitude has absolutely nothing to do with science.

Ove von Spaeth, Zenith I.C. Project, - (31.May,2004).

::  Still, I am grateful that Vedelsby gave me this extra opportunity to contribute with more information:


NOTE I: - My favourite "pseudo-scientists" are Tycho Brahe, Darwin, Albert Einstein, and Schliemann - none of whom originally had a thorough academic scientific training or support, but never the less they invented new, ground-breaking scientific methods and - through by their pioneering scientific research - made discoveries and inventions decisive to history and mankind. Vedelsby chose one of her "...favourite pseudo-historians..." to be Ove von Spaeth, whose work she hasn't studied seriously or understood - indeed, a time-saving achievement.
       Concerning my treatise on Senmut's Star Map, it has been published in the esteemed "Centaurus International Magazine of the History of Mathematics, Science, and Technology".
       Without any of that kind of commentaries, the Ove von Spaeth-paper on the Senmut star map has been received, accepted, and now being accessible worldwide at central libraries of scientific institutions, e.g. in Washington DC, Chicago, Paris, Madrid, Oxford, Cambridge, The Vatican, Cracow, Moscow, Beijing, and Tokyo, - and in several other scientific institutions of history, astronomy, and Egyptology, e.g. in Germany, Belgium, South Africa and Egypt.

          Concerning my research on Moses, my books have been supported by a great number of scientists and experts. To mention a few e.g.: Jes P. Asmussen, Ph.D. (Theology), Professor, formerly at the Carsten Niebuhr Department of Near Eastern Studies, University of Copenhagen; - and Kristian Peder Moesgaard, D.Sc., Professor, History of Science Department, Aarhus University, - Director of the Steno Museum, Denmark's National Museum for the History of Science, Aarhus.
          According to consequences by Vedelsby's expressed beliefs those many experts and institutions must all be wrong. But she knows what is "pseudo".

          Ove von Spaeth


NOTE II:  - Until recently, it had been common practice for scientists - for almost a hundred years - to send/deliver their articles on demand as a copy or off print to other scientists. To do so, many used pre-printed postcards with their address and the words "Dear Colleague, Please send me your article/paper entitled ... etc.". Now, the Internet makes it even easier to acquire an article. The afore-mentioned Joanne Conman has referred to my web site. Although my e-mail-address is well-presented, she has never asked for a copy of my paper, but stated her judgement against my treatise to her Hastro-L-group in January 2001, still - by her own words: - without having read it.
       Conman turned to a fellow newsgroup-member, astronomer van Gent, for support. He hadn't read my paper either, nor had he requested it from me or a library. But this did not stop him from stating, even in a foreign field - and totally outside my paper's content - that a Moses chronology in my books must be feared as being wrong in some way, of course. What a show-off in that group.

          An Australian web site, by Gary D. Thompson, presenting a very useful compilation of literature on ancient astronomy, has placed my paper in this collection together with a strange assertion based on Conman & van Gent's inadequate comments as if these were a result of a serious scientific analysis. - And in continuing the discussions concerning the OvS-paper, now on the Russian Internet, a man named Dimitrij Gusjev, who did not study the paper either, but, instead, he quotes Conman's unfounded opinions as if they were "pure facts". And now, Vedelsby willingly makes a similar mistake.
       My early correspondence with Dr. Clyde W. Tombaugh - a former farm-hand who became a self-taught astronomer and a great expert, and discovered the planet Pluto and more than 1400 asteroids, objects, comets, etc. - is now recorded (side by side, literally, with Carl Sagan's matters) in "Clyde W. Tombaugh Papers" (in New Mexico State University's possession and also to be seen on the Internet). Poor Tombaugh, he did not know that he was exchanging thoughts with a "pseudo". - And regarding to the great Professor in astronomy, the late Carl Sagan, known for his early research (governmental supported) on the possibility of extraterrestrial life - in this avant-garde position he was criticized for performing "pseudo-science". Sagan is often quoted for the statement: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence". Concerning Conman's and Vedelsby's funny assertions, what kind of evidence have they brought forward?

       And why should my paper be considered wrong by a judgement not based on any testing or argumentation concerning the paper's weighty data? Only because Conman says so. Joanne Conman is known as a "competent amateur Egyptologist" (http://members.optusnet.com.au) and may be a good scholar - but in this case, she does not seem to act like one. Debate and criticism are indispensable to science and research, and Conman's criticism would be most welcome and valuable, especially if it related to what had actually been stated.

       Thus, Conman has expressed her considerations only, with no evidence, and has not proven anything at all, and - from bad to worse - her proclamation is without her personal inspection of the source in question! She is entitled to do so, but then she should by honesty inform her learned forum that this opinion of hers is not genuine scientifically based. - The very problem appears to occur with surprising frequency in the academic world, because some of the critics openly substitute their own opinions and considerations for concrete facts and data. Again, this outcome is not scientific at all.
          Ove von Spaeth

          "I have purchased your paper, 'Dating the Oldest Egyptian Star Map', from Centaurus Magazine - via Blackwell. We are preparing a special exhibition about astronomy. I am the Acting Head of the Department of Astronomy at The Kroppedal Museum (formerly The Ole Roemer Museum). The main subject of this department is in general the history of Danish astronomy  (Tycho Brahe, Ole Roemer, etc.), however, we are also engaged in ancient natural science and cosmology. With greatest interest I have read your paper on the dating of the Star Map from the tomb of Senmut."

Jakob Danneskiold-Samsøe, Leading Curator, Department of Astronomy, Kroppedal Museum, (DK-2630 Taastrup),  - astronomi@kroppedal.dk  -  www.kroppedal.dk  -  (27.Apr.2006)

Ancient Star Charts. - The word "star" comes from the Greek term meaning heavenly body;  - Bronze Age 'star chart' found March 2nd ;  - Lascaux, France, 17,000 years ago: in star pictures of the Pleiades;  - Prehistoric Star Maps Identified In France And Spain; -         
          New Discovery  in Ancient Egyptian Star Map ( www.moses-egypt.net/star-map/senmut-survey_en.asp );
          Also, - Star of David - Solomon's Seal ; - Ancient Star Maps; - Ice Age Star Map Discovered BBC - August 2000; - Zodiac - The ancients mapped the stars; - Aboriginal (Native American) Star Knowledge; - Star Charts and Moon Stations; - Sacred Stars and Treasure Maps 5 Pointed Stars.

Ellie Crystal, - Metaphysical and Science Website, Created and Designed by Ellie Crystal. Copyright 1995-2001, - http://www.crystalinks.com/  - Ancient Star Maps  -  (5.Mar.2001)

What did the ancient Egyptians really know about the world of stars? Researchers have discussed this for more than 100 years, but they have not always recognized an impressive knowledge be the ancient peoples.
          Now, Ove von Spaeth, an independent historian in Denmark, has proved that a special dating key with exact astronomical information has been built into the oldest known star map of the world. It is placed in the Luxor tomb of Senmut, the Egyptian grand vizier ca. 1500 BC
In 2000 Ove von Spaeth's pioneering research resulting in a treatise about the map was accepted by the esteemed international science journal, the "Centaurus Magazine of The History of Mathematics, Science, and Technology".

          The discovery and the dating are supporting Ove von Spaeth's new orienting research of the mystery and drama of the historical Moses.
          This appears in particular from von Spaeth's book, "The Enigmatic Son of Pharaoh's Daughter", which also contains the entire treatise as a supplementary appendix. The book is the volume two of his series of books about the historical Moses.

          Ove von Spaeth's five-volume work, "Assassinating Moses" (C.A. Reitzel Publishers, Copenhagen) is considered so impartial that the National and University Library of Israel in Jerusalem has started to buy it. Simultaneously Arab search engines have accepted and described in details the web-site of the book series, www.moses-egypt.net.
          Also, Zdhems Dist, a Russian researcher, has made a Russian homepage entirely about Ove von Spaeth's treatise on the star map.

          Many debates about Ove von Spaeth's discoveries - internationally, on the Net, and in other media - prove lack of knowledge to the original treatise. Now, however, his whole decoding of this exciting star map can be downloaded free of charge in English and in Danish from the web-site of Ove von Spaeth's book-series on Moses, i.e. http://www.moses-egypt.net/star-map/senmut3-treatise_en.asp

Hans Baron Anckarstjerna, Editor under the press law, - SweDano Journal,  - http://www.swedano.dk/&swedano@post.cybercity.dk  -  (5.Jan.2003)

(With permission as per January 5, 2003, from Hans Baron Anckarstjerna, SweDano Journal)

Searching-For-Truth. - Description: A group for the path of truth. Google Groups Beta. *Yahoo! Groups Links*. Subject: [spirit_truths] An Egyptian Star-map, by Ove von Spaeth, Independent Scholar, Denmark. Find messages by this author - at: http://ww.anistor.co.hol.gr/english/enback/v021.htm  - & -  http://www.moses-egypt.net/star-map/senmut1-mapdate_en.asp 

Jeff Watts, ( http://beunlimited.googlepages.com/home ) -http://groups.google.com/group/Searching-For-Truth/browse_thread/thread/a608a38df697da79/892afc7bc85e9751?lnk=st&q=&rnum=1&hl=en#892afc7bc85e9751  -  Fri, May 12 2006 2:33 am  - (12.May,2006)

British Library: History of Cartography. - The International Journal for the History of Cartography. Resources for Librarians and Publishers. Journal of record as well as scholarship (includes book reviews, bibliography, chronicles). - Publisher Routledge, part of Taylor & Francis Group. - British Library, 96 Euston Road, London NW1 2OB
-

Imago Mundi Bibliography, JSTOR Collection: Arts & Sciences Complement ... Spaeth, Ove von: - Dating the oldest Egyptian star map / Ove von Spaeth. - 01:53(323) ... Issue: Volume 53, 2001, P. 212.

Herbert, Francis, Hon. (Compiled by), - Imago Mundi Bibliography, -
http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0308-5694(2001)53%3C180%3AIMB%3E2.0.CO%3B2-D

- & -

Imago Mundi Bibliography, File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - 2003 Imago Mundi Ltd ISSN 0308-5694 print/1479-7801 online. DOI: 10.1080/0308569032000097594 ... Leitz, Christian: - In response to article of O. von Spaeth  on the star map (TT 353). ... Issue: Volume 55, Number 1 / 8 October 2003, P. 176.

Smith, Catharine Delano (Editor): - Imago Mundi Bibliography, -
http://taylorandfrancis.metapress.com/(45flqsvnpgucrsb5ekqz1m45)/app/home/contribution.asp?referrer=parent&backto=issue,13,13;journal,7,7;linkingpublicationresults,1:109402,1

-

(Ed.note: Imago Mundi: The International Journal for the History of Cartography. - The only English-language scholarly periodical devoted exclusively to the history of pre-modern maps, mapping, and map-related ideas from anywhere in the world. Founded in Berlin in 1935 by Russian émigré Leo Bagrow as an annual publication. British Library, London NW1 2OB, - http://links.jstor.org/journals/03085694.html  - & - Publ. Routledge, taylorandfrancis.metapress.com/index/TJ66DWGM26KQV9VE.pdf)

http://www.godlikepro

ductions.com  -  Anyone know anything about King Solomon?
_

Re: Anyone know anything about King Solomon? - It's all in 2nd Samuel and 1st Kings.

Isaac Brock, Isaac Brock died for us, User ID: 83547  - 12/3/2006 4:29 - Re: Anyone know anything about King Solomon? http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message313102/pg1  -(3.Dec.2006)

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Hi SS2, - The Queen brought him gold. - 120 talents is recorded, a huge sum.

Alxander Raven, User ID: 165243  - 12/3/2006 4:54 - Re: Anyone know anything about King Solomon? http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message313102/pg1  - (3.Dec.2006)

-
He was King David's son, and built the temple where the western wall is that Jews pray at today. The muslem dome of the rock sits on top of Solomon's Temple ruins, which sits on top of David's threshing floor...

Anonymous Coward, User ID: 149921  - 12/3/2006 5:03 PM - Re: Anyone know anything about King Solomon? http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message313102/pg1  - (3.Dec.2006)

-
          ... At last we would like to state that the above information together with the information found in our file on Zimri Lim and Hammurabi and its testimony to the 'Benjaminites' and 'Dawidum' with respect to Saul, David and Solomon becomes an affirmative reality to the historicity of these kings.
          Today's mainstream historians, once having embarked upon an erroneous chronological path supported by now thousands of research papers of people who have no or little knowledge of the chronology here presented, have abandoned good historical methods.
          The above mentioned papers, as well as many other details presented at this website (i.e. the 'Peleset/Peleset' issue) provide positive evidence for the history of the people presented in the Hebrew Scriptures, and ...

Anonymous Coward, User ID:  52731  - 12/3/2006 5:10 PM - Re: Anyone know anything about King Solomon? http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message313102/pg1  - (3.Dec.2006)

-
Cf.: "An Egyptian Star-map", - by Ove von Spaeth, Independent Scholar, Denmark:
                    "... The astronomical knowledge of the ancient Egyptians turns out to be surprisingly broader than previously imagined. According to a new analysis, the world's oldest star-map seems to contain information of an actual celestial event of its time. This recent discovery uncovers the earliest exact scientific description of an otherwise rare but not unknown celestial phenomenon.
          This 3,500 year old star-map which decorates one of the ceilings in the tomb of the great Senmut (or Senenmut) near Luxor (Thebes), apparently demonstrates a previously unknown aspect of the astronomical situation in Egypt around 1,500 BC. This revelation is the result of investigations, the full report of which was published in the International Journal of the History of Science Centaurus (Ove von Spaeth, "Dating the Oldest Egyptian Star Map," vol. 42:3 (2000) : 159-179).
                    Senmut's Star-map. Drawing of the northern panel: - The map's configurations, which previously have been considered mostly as mythological displays, are now disclosed to be an accurate depiction of a rare gathering of planets in well-defined celestial positions. The information contained in the map refers to a specific point in time. The re-evaluation of this and subsequent maps gives birth to new perspectives: by introducing these new reference points in time, the appropriate chronology for the epoch in question, which otherwise has been much disputed, can now be dated with considerably greater precision than heretofore possible.
          The well-known Egyptian star map in question was worked out by Senmut, who was the vizier to queen Hatshepsut and also the calendar registrar of Egypt, during the 18th dynasty (16th c. BCE). The recently decoded material can be objectively proven, based on modern astronomical calculations, to depict important astronomical circumstances. It has now become clear that the map of Senmut neither depicts an arbitrary gathering of planets in the sky nor is it a copy of a pattern eventually made by Senmut's predecessors.
                    Since this stellar-map describes a planetary conjunction (i.e. a close encounter of the planets) where a unique pattern of the positions of the planets are concentrated within a defined sector of the sky, it therefore contains information unmistakably related to a fixed point in time, which it has been possible to calculate as May 1534 BCE. According to the analysis, this dating is additionally supported by the map's record of a simultaneous solar eclipse. Modern astronomical methods confirm this interpretation with great precision: accordingly, the map of Senmut must be acknowledged as one of history's oldest recorded scientific achievements.
          Subsequently produced Egyptian star-maps seem to confirm this discovery. Created under the reign of several pharaohs, during 300 years or more after the first map, they exhibit Senmut's principle of depicting a planetary conjunction. This seems to be a now forgotten tradition since these younger star-maps occur only in the reign of those pharaohs, such as Ramses II, where actual conjunctions of the relevant type appeared in the Egyptian sky.
                    The study concludes as follows: The Senmut map depicts an exceptional event in the sky. This seems to have produced a prototype for all later pictures of similar celestial events - but with one exception: In the first depiction, in the time of Senmut, Mars is retrograde in the west when the other planets assemble around Sirius in the east. - So far has been demonstrated:
          1.  The Senmut maps contain a cosmological and astro-mythological expression not only as decoration - as hitherto assumed - but also as a picture of a particular and unique situation in the sky.
          2.  This configuration of the sky can be exactly dated: 1534 BC. Furthermore one particular day can be identified if the solar eclipse is included as indication.
          In addition the star maps may contribute to a better dating of their creator Senmut and also of the contemporary Egyptian pharaohs - at least accurate to within a decade. ..." (all text above: by historian Ove von Spaeth)

Anonymous Coward, User ID:  52731  - 12/3/2006 5:26 PM - Re: Anyone know anything about King Solomon? http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message313102/pg2  - (3.Dec.2006)

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Manna is gold. Used to prolong the life. - Other causes of wonderment have been the innumerable inscribed references to 'bread', along with the prominent hieroglyph for 'light', found in the Shrine of the Kings. But the discovery which caused the most bewilderment was the unearthing of something which was identified as the enigmatic mfkzt to which the 'bread' symbolism appeared to be related. Laying some inches deep beneath heavy flagstones in a storeroom was a considerable supply of the finest pure white, unadulterated powder.
          At the time, some suggested that the powder could be a remnant of copper smelting but, as was quickly pointed out, smelting does not produce white powder; it leaves a dense black slag. Moreover, there is no supply of copper ore within miles of the temple and the old smelting works are, in any event, apparent in the distant valleys. Others guessed that the powder was ash from the burning of plants to produce alkali, but there was no trace whatever of any plant residue.
          For want of any other explanation, it was determined that the white powder and the conical stones were probably associated with some form of sacrificial rite, but again it was pointed out that this was an Egyptian temple and animal sacrifice was not an Egyptian practice. Moreover, despite sieving and winnowing, there were no remnants whatever of bones or any other foreign matter to be found within the mfkzt, which appeared for all the world like a hoard of sacred talcum-powder.
          Some of the mysterious powder was taken back to Britain for analysis and examination, but no results were ever published. The rest was left opento the elements after 3000 years to become a victim of the desert winds. What has become apparent, however, is that this powder was seemingly identical to the ancient Mesopotamian fire-stone or shem-an-na - the substance that was made into bread-cakes and used to feed the Light-bodies of the Babylonian kings and the pharaohs of Egypt. This, of course, explains the temple inscriptions denoting the importance of bread and light, while the white powder (the shem-an-na) has been identified with the sacred manna that Aaron placed in the Ark of the Covenant.
          The book of Exodus relates that the Master Craftsman who made the original shewbread for Moses in Sinai was Bezaleel, but Bezaleel was not a baker, he was a noted goldsmith - the very man who made the golden accoutrements for the Tabernacle and the Ark itself. This conforms precisely with the function of the priestly Master Craftsmen in Mesopotamia - the vulcans and metallurgists of Tubal-Cain who manufactured the valuable shem-an-na from pure gold. As for the crucible, the conical stones and the great array of tanks, tables and equipment which made the Sinai temple appear more like a gigantic laboratory than a church, it emerges that this is precisely what it was.
          What Petrie had actually found was the alchemical workshop of Akhenaten and of the numerous dynasties of pharaohs before him - a temple laboratory where the furnace would have roared and smoked in the production of the sacred fire-stone of the high-spin shem-an-na. Quite suddenly, the words of Exodus begin to make sense as we read them again with a wholly new insight:
          And mount Sinai was altogether on a smoke ... and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mount quaked greatly.
          In Exodus we read that Moses took the Golden Calf, which the Israelites had made, and burnt it in the fire, and ground it to a powder'. This is precisely the process of a shem-an-na furnace and it is evident that the Egyptian priests of the goddess Hathor had been working their fire for countless generations before the priests of Aten became involved in the time of Moses.

Anonymous Coward, User ID:  159884 - 12/3/2006 6:02 PM - Re: Anyone know anything about King Solomon? http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message313102/pg2  - (3.Dec.2006)

          General Astronomy - > Ancient Egypt             Created ultimo October 2010

Knowing the date was very important to the ancient Egyptians because they had to know when the Nile was due to flood and recede so they could plant their crops. They based their calendars upon the rising of certain stars and observations of the lunar cycle.
Stars and Moon Calendar
          Representations of the earliest calendars in history have been found on tomb ceilings and sarcophagus lids from the 9th Dynasty onwards. Some of the surviving artwork inside the tombs of the most important (or wealthy) Egyptians consists of stars and celestial figures we'd recognise as constellations.
          The Egyptian astronomers (usually priests) divided the year into 12 months within three seasons:
•  Akhet (Inundation: the flooding of the Nile upon which all life in Egypt depended) I, II, III and IV
•  Peret (Emergence of the Land) I, II, III and IV
•  Shemu (Harvest) I, II, III and IV

The Tomb Ceiling Astronomical Map
A commoner called Senmut was an architect and teacher before female pharaoh Hatshepsut's reign. Hatshepsut was married to her half-brother Tuthmosis II as per Egyptian royal family custom, and they had a daughter, Princess Neferure. Senmut was the princess' tutor and one of Hatshepsut's most trusted advisers. After her husband's death Hatshepsut acted as regent for the next male heir Tuthmosis III, her husband's child by a lesser wife, while plotting to take the throne herself. Senmut supported Hatshepsut's quest to rule Egypt and he swiftly rose to a position of high authority, earning himself the title 'High Steward of the King'.

Related External Links
The Senmut Star Map by Ove von Spaeth:  http://www.moses-egypt.net/star-map/senmut-files_survey_en.asp
Ancient Egypt calendar:   http://www.ancient-egypt.org/index.html

bbc.co.uk, - BBC - http://www.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/beta/approved_entry/A73516197
-  (October 2010)

quote:    Originally posted by Kiya - 06 October 2006 : 02:05:25 . - L'elemento che maggiormente attrae la mia attenzione è senza dubbio la rappresentazione in un riquadro di tre stelle che potrebbero essere le tre stelle della cintura di Orione. La particolarità sta nel fatto che di queste, la stella centrale è circondata da tre pseudo ellissi, che realmente parrebbero tre gocce: da un lato terminano con una punta, non sono arrotondate. Le tre punte in questione sono rivolte verso una quarta stella che va a completare il quadro.

In tutti i libri che ho letto su questo argomento si dice che le tre stelle della cintura di Orione sono quelle più grandi al centro, sopra la figura umana. Questo anche nei libri "di mistero" come "Il mistero di Orione" di Bauval e Gilbert, "Custode della genesi" e "Lo specchio del cielo" di Hancock e altri.
          Le altre tre stelle, con la centrale circondata dalle forme ovali, potrebbero invece essere il gruppo (sempre all'interno della costellazione di Orione) che contiene la nebulosa M42. La stella alonata sarebbe proprio la nebulosa, che si può vedere anche ad occhio nudo come una stella "sfocata". Nell'antichità la nebulosa si doveva vedere molto meglio di oggi, mancando l'inquinamento luminoso dovuto alle luci delle città. La nebulosa M42 è quella stella più rossa sotto la cintura di Orione.

          Secondo uno studio pubblicato da Ove von Spaeth  nel 2000, la posizione dei pianeti e delle stelle raffigurati in quella tomba permetterebbe di datarla in modo preciso. Si tratterebbe del mese di maggio del 1534 avanti Cristo:
          http://www.moses-egypt.net/star-map/senmut-files_survey_en.asp    &
          http://www.moses-egypt.net/star-map/senmut1-mapdate_en.asp    &
          http://www.moses-egypt.net/star-map/senmut2-faq_en.asp

Qui, nella sezione "downloading" si può scaricare il file PDF con tutto l'articolo illustrato:
          http://www.moses-egypt.net/star-map/senmut3-treatise_en.asp
In questo articolo si parla anche di quali stelle e pianeti sono raffigurati nel soffitto e in quale posizione, ad esempio a partire da sinistra si vede Venere (l'uccello Benu), poi Mercurio indicato dal solo nome senza figure, poi Saturno e Giove sulle prime due barche. L'astro più importante è Sirio, raffigurato come Iside. L'ultima figura umana in piedi sulla barca sarebbe Orione, sormontato dalle tre stelle della cintura. Marte sarebbe la barca vuota a destra:
          http://www.moses-egypt.net/star-map/senmut1-mapdate_en.asp
Quel soffitto secondo l'ipotesi di Ove von Spaeth rappresenta una congiunzione nella stessa "zona" di cielo di questi astri, avvenuta nell'aprile-maggio del 1534 a.C.

Trystero,  Antikitera.net - Il Portale Italiano dell'Archeologia Misteriosa  -
Posted - 22 October 2006 : 22:41:43  -  http://www.antikitera.net/forum2/post.asp
?method=ReplyQuote&REPLY_ID=6543&TOPIC_ID=501&FORUM_ID=6  -  (22.Oct.2006)

http://ahatmose2002.proboards22.com  -  « Thread Started on Sept 6, 2006, 6:52pm » -  As Above ... So Below - Was Earth formed by accretion within Jupiter?
_

Hello all adventure loving types, - Out of college I joined a design group working on the fuel-pneumatic systems on the launch stage Saturn engines for Apollo. That experience (as it did in many cases) turns one's eyes past the hardware and into the beyond.
          So it was that I started to study the science of the ancient civilizations. They were not Pagan, and their science was real. And it was not by chance that Jupiter was (Osiris) the King; (Zeus) the ruler of Olympus; and (Jove) the patron of the Roman state.
          Jupiter had that prestigious ranking because the Ancients believed that Earth was formed by accretion deep within this gas giant, and was born from the Great Eye.
          It's not clear how the Ancients saw the Great Eye of Jupiter (tho' we can attribute our ignorance, at least in part, on the destruction of the great libraries of Alexandria, Ashurbanipal, and others) --- but see it they did!
          So what does this have to do with aerospace engineering? Just this - much of our work was put into the hardware that went into outer space - and onto new worlds. The new worlds held secrets, but some of those secrets weren't secrets to some of the ancient civilizations.
          And that's a fact!   jb  .\

James Gillette, Don's Geek Squad, -  Joined: Aug 2006, Posts: 88 - « Thread Started on Sept 6, 2006, 6:52pm » - Was Earth formed by accretion within Jupiter? http://ahatmose2002.proboards22.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=200   -  (6.Sep.2006)

-
Dear JIMBOW, and ALL others : an interesting thesis, no question ! But this theory implies the existence of an optical tool like a telescope, similar to a so called Refractor-type telescope, to enable a person to perform an astronomical observation of the Jupiter (Jove) with the capabiliy to recognize enough details, including the big red eye and its characteristics, even over a longer time. Hence the logical question is: did we find something like an old Egyptian telescope ?? or at least a strong evidence ( reliefs, wall-paintings, papyri,.., ) for it ?? ---- difficult question, I know ! 
          No museum did expose something like an Egyptian telescope (refractor like ?). But some indirect evidence for such a optical equipment may exist: the French Louvre houses some quartz-objects of great interest in this context: quartz-made-lenses (from Dynasty V) with a surprising optical precision.
          Colored lenses of similar quality we find as wonderful eye-inlays of the fantastic Old Kingdom (IV/V. dynasty) statues of prince Rahotep and his wife ! Wonderful blue eyes, which seem to follow a visitors look ! But the Louvre lenses were analyzed only some years ago, under the topic of their optical qualities. And yes: they could have been used for optical purposes ! for anatomy but as well for astronomy ? --- the study was published by J. Enoch around 2002. --- 
          Furthermore Robert Temple, the author of famous book, "The Sirius Mystery" is also fascinated by the findings of old Egyptian lenses. Including those from the Old Kingdom which I mentioned above !
          Last not least of very interest are the new interpretations of the star-map in the early NK tomb of SENENMUT, published by OVE von SPAETH, look here at :
http://www.moses-egypt.net/star-map/senmut1-mapdate_en.asp
 ---- enough stuff ! -- now have a nice weekend ! hope to meet You again on next monday ! -- Regards: Bernie

Bernie, Resident of Mt Olympus, -  Dec 2003, Posts: 565 - Re: Was Earth formed by accretion within Jupiter? « Reply #7 on Sept 8, 2006, 10:49am »  http://ahatmose2002.proboards22.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=200   -  (8.Sep.2006)

-
Hello Bernie and all, - jb} I found Ove von Spaeth's Senmuts's Star Map page very interesting. I can't read the map myself, but in reading the text we encounter words like {Mediterranean, Maya, Pleiades, Orion, the planets, etc.,) all in association, and I know that to be correct.
          It's also interesting that Spaeth suggested that the map indicated a "specific point in time"; on that I agree because it's something the Ancients would do.
          Why in this living world, on the other hand, Spaeth would include a series of responses on the subject from the-hall-of-maat (net discussiongroup) - I cannot imagine. I also loved the choice comment by Owen Gingerich:
                    Quote: "... the [von Spaeth's] findings are very ingenious and admirable, and quite surprising considering the apparent lack of interest of the Egyptians in this sort of astronomy ...".
          Maybe it's not surprising than to see that Gingerich is a Research Professor in (Astronomy and the History of Science), at the Harvard-Smithsonian Institution.
          Thanks for the article - and maybe I'll apply for the job of Research Professor of Astronomy and the History of Science, at the Harvard-Smithsonian Institution.
          But if I get the job, don't look for phrases like the apparent lack of interest of the Egyptians - in any of my work!    jb  .\

James, Don's Geek Squad, -  Joined: Aug 2006, Posts: 88 - Re: Was Earth formed by accretion within Jupiter? « Reply #8 on Sept 9, 2006, 9:06am »  http://ahatmose2002.proboards22.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=200   -     -  (9.Sep.2006)

- - -
(NOTE, by www.moses-egypt.net:)
James Gillette also has his own informative website about "The celestial science of the ancient Egyptians": http://www.beforebc.com/egyptcelestialsci.html

The Ancient Near Eastern Chronology Forum  -  http://disc.yourwebapps.com  - von Spaeth and Senenmut's Ceiling
_

This is not the most comprehensive overview of the astronomical ceiling of Senenmut but it does cite the date I have seen before [by Ove von Spaeth], calculated according to the "southern sky"--1534 BC. http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/0801/0801.1331v1.pdf
          My guess is, given that it was Senenmut's own tomb, that this was supposed to reflect the heavens on the day of his birth. Horoscope, so to speak. If that's so, then the following must be taken into consideration. The tomb of Senenmut on the summit of the hill Sheikh abd-el Gurneh was not begun until "Year 7". This tomb and the other one, with the ceiling, in the environs of Deir el Bahri, are not mutually exclusive.
          The first was probably intended as a mortuary chapel and the one with the ceiling was Senenmut's intended place of burial. It was the "secret one", although Dorman, for one, believes it had royal sanction. According to portraits on ostraca, Senenmut was far from being a youngster by Year 7.
          This is the year in the reign of Thutmose III that is traditionally accepted as the year of the usurpation of royal titles by Hatshepsut--and also the start of her mortuary temple, Djeser-djeseru. If one surmises that Senenmut was born in 1534 BC, he may have been as old as 50 by Year 7. Anyway, the man is portrayed with a lot of wrinkles. That would put Year 7 at 1484. Well,it's as useful as anything else discussed here for chronological purposes. Alternatively, if 1534 is Year 7, then some of T III's own astronomical data must be checked.

Marianne Luban, - Senenmut's Ceiling, The Ancient Near Eastern Chronology Forum — Wed Feb 13 10:34  - 67.150.125.87
http://disc.yourwebapps.com/discussion.cgi?disc=177754;article=8003;title=The Ancient Near Eastern Chronology Forum  -  (13.Feb.2008)

-
Before going too far out on a limb with von Spaeth's dating of the Senenmut ceiling you should read Christian Leitz' rebuttal "Remarks about the Appearance of Mars in the Tomb of Senenmut in Western Thebes" in Centaurus 44 (2002) 140-142.  - Chris

Chris Bennett, - Senenmut's Ceiling, The Ancient Near Eastern Chronology Forum —Thu Feb 14 10:00  -  71.136.74.70
http://disc.yourwebapps.com/discussion.cgi?disc=177754;article=8010;title=The Ancient Near Eastern Chronology Forum  -  (14.Feb.2008)

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ML: I'm sure it can't be any more detailed than Leitz's chapter on the ceiling in his "Studien Zur Aegyptischen Astronomie" [Harrassowitz, 1989] In that he submits the date for the ceiling as November 1462 [so a reason to disagree with von Spaeth]. Also, he claims there "Mars cannot be seen" at that time. Among his arguments, Leitz more or less submits his datum by a process of elimination, according to the accession dates of Thutmose III--high, medium and low, as he sees them. I might have been missing something amid all the astronomy and scholarly German, but I don't see Leitz giving a reason why November 1462 should have been a significant month. So what does he say in the 2002 article?

Marianne Luban, - Senenmut's Ceiling, The Ancient Near Eastern Chronology Forum — Fri Feb 15 19:24  -  67.150.13.88
http://disc.yourwebapps.com/discussion.cgi?disc=177754;article=8018;title=The Ancient Near Eastern Chronology Forum   -  (15.Feb.2008)

-
Basically, he gives a number of reasons why von Spaeth's claimed identification of Mars cannot be right.
          This is of course a different matter from whether Leitz' own dating is right. They can't both be right but they can both be wrong. And there may not be a date to be extracted.  -  CHris

CHris, - Senenmut's Ceiling, The Ancient Near Eastern Chronology Forum — Fri Feb 15 19:50  -  71.136.74.70
http://disc.yourwebapps.com/discussion.cgi?disc=177754;article=8019;title=The Ancient Near Eastern Chronology Forum  -  (15.Feb.2008)

-
Interesting, Marianne. Here's another Website on Senenmut's astronomical ceiling: http://www.anistor.gr/english/enback/v021.htm .
I don't see the connection you're making between "year 7" and the year 1534 BC, though. I take it only that Senenmut was something like 30 years older than Hatshepsut, nothing more. - George R.

George R., - Senenmut's Ceiling, The Ancient Near Eastern Chronology Forum — Wed Feb 13 19:56  -  198.86.109.66
http://disc.yourwebapps.com/discussion.cgi?disc=177754;article=8005;title=The Ancient Near Eastern Chronology Forum  -  (13.Feb.2008)

-
Nope. 1534 BC is probably the year of the birth of Hatshepsut, herself, if that southern sky has been correctly interpreted.
          It can work out. Look:
1534 Year of the birth of Hatshepsut.
1534 minus 16 = 1518 = beginning of reign of Thutmose I, already being a man with a wife [or wives] and children when he succeeded Amenhotep I.
1518 minus 8 = 1510 = death of Thutmose I, beginning reign of Thutmose II.
1510 minus 5 = 1505 = death of Thutmose II.
1505 minus 23 = 1482 = Year 23 of Thutmose III, fitting New Moon Cycle.
          This would mean that Hatshepsut was well into middle age in Year 21 of Thutmose III, when she was supposed to have died [or maybe was ousted]. Now, the reigns of TI and TII can be otherwise distributed because T II only has 3 attested years. But, probably, their entire reigns encompass 13 years, per Manetho, as I think he lumps them together under "Chebron" or "Chebres".
          Unless Hatshepsut had been born in at least 1534 BC, the mummy that Z. Hawass touts as being hers can't be--because it's the mummy of a woman of around 50. The mummy of T II has been judged to be that of a man around the age of 30. If he died in 1505--he would have had to be born sometime around 1534 BC, himself, being either older or younger than Hatshepsut. Can T I have been married to a royal lady prior to the death of Amenhotep I? Probably he was, as he had already been designated the successor, with A I realizing he may never have a son. A I, some think, might even have been gay. Were records kept of the positions of the heavenly bodies during the months in 1534 BC? Why not?

Marianne Luban, - Senenmut's Ceiling, The Ancient Near Eastern Chronology Forum — Wed Feb 13 19:47 - 67.150.9.25
http://disc.yourwebapps.com/discussion.cgi?disc=177754;article=8004;title=The Ancient Near Eastern Chronology Forum  -  (13.Feb.2008)


- - -
(NOTE, by www.moses-egypt.net:)
Marianne Luban is the author of "The Pharaoh's Barber", Pacific Moon Publications, 2008 - www.amazon.com/Pharaohs-Barber-Marianne-Luban/dp/0972952411 - also, Marianne Luban: "The Exodus Chronicles: Beliefs, Legends & Rumors from Antiquity Regarding the Exodus of the Jews from Egypt", Pacific Moon Publications, 2003 - www.amazon.com/Exodus-Chronicles-Beliefs-Antiquity-Regarding/dp/0972952403

Ancient Egyptian Astronomy:  The ancient Egyptians did not have much knowledge about astronomy. They had limited knowledge of geometry itself and also.
          There are 2 members of the Ancient Egyptian astronomy & medicine Department at Independent Researcher on  Academia.edu:  Jacques Jost and Roz Park.
          Cosmology Books Astronomy Magazine For Kids Psk Constellation Constellation Quadra Quartz Chronograph Astronomy Gift Cancer Constellation Tattoo.

Category:  Science,    Content:  Astronomy had a practical purpose and was used for the development of a solar calendar.
          Bibliography:  - ancient Egyptian astronomy in 120 years of literature - behind Ove von Spaeth's treatise  on the dating of the Senmut star map.

Prehistoric Egyptian Astronomy:  A Chronology of Achievement.
          Bibliography:  - ancient Egyptian astronomy in 120 years of literature - behind Ove von Spaeth's treatise  on the dating of the Senmut star map.

Ancient Egypt question:  Why did ancient Egyptian astronomers study the stars? It was like religion. Why do Christians put so much on faith?
          Bibliography:  - ancient Egyptian astronomy in 120 years of literature - behind Ove von Spaeth's treatise  on the dating of the Senmut star map.

Of Egyptian physics and chemistry we know nothing, and almost as little of Ancient Egypt astronomy.
          Ancient Egyptian Science, vol. 2:  Calendars, Clocks, and Astronomy from Journal of the American Oriental Society, The provided by Find Articles at BNET.

Ancient Egypt, Hermetism, Sacred Science, Theurgy, Esoteric Architecture,  - Sacred Astronomy, by Rosemary Clark.

universalwaste.org, - http://www.universalwaste.org/sysa/ancient-egyptian-astronomy.html   -  (October.2010)

I have read with interest information provided on your website concerning the research of the Semut star-map and its probable relation to Moses. You suggest the map describes a real astronomical observation in the reign of queen Hatshepsut.

          As I am writing a book on the chronology of Jesus Christ, my interest was drawn to what seems a conjunction of Saturn and Jupiter in the very year that an eclipse of the sun occurred over Egypt.
          My research shows two possible dates for the solar eclipse, one retro-calculation with "Voyager" software came up with June 1, 1478 BC, in the "pot" or "well" of Gemini; the other by Aymen M. Ibrahem, author of Egyptian Cosmology, Part III, Solar Eclipses, places the eclipse in year 15 of queen Hatshepsut, Julian date August 23, 1463 BC.

          The latter date seems more likely and is further corroborated by a reference to a solar eclipse in the text on the base of the standing obelisk of the queen at Karnak and the fact that the star Sirius, is shown as visible in the night sky, i.e. after its rising in the month of July of that year.

Don Leichel, New Zealand - exalto@clear.net.nz  -  (14.Nov.2005)

::   OvS's reply.    It will be important to be cautious when using the "easy" software of astronomy programmes. Generally, they are not very precise when going that far back in time. Then, concerning two solar eclipses - 1478 BC and 1463 BC - which you mention having taken place in the years of queen Hatshepsut - there seems to be some differences here, since many indications prove that she died in the middle of the 1480'es BC.

          In the course of Egyptology through the last 150 years, there exist many chronology hypothesis on early 18th dynasty - and approx. every 15-20 years a new trend is added. Again, be careful, the texts on the base of her obelisk are well-known, and normally in the translations there seems no mention of any solar eclipse.
          An exact dating of the Senmut star map - established by me, originally in 1984, and in 2000 being published in an international scientific journal - is the first astronomically based fixation of the period in question. A point in my dating research on the map is the discovery of the fact that all, or almost all, planets are gathered around the meridian of Sirius. A list of such conjunctions - mostly taking place in the celestial sector Gemini - through 2300 years (100 AD--2200 BC) is available from my treatise, to be downloaded from:  www.moses-egypt.net/star-map/senmut3-treatise_en.asp

          These Sirius conjunctions appear to be a somewhat rare phenomenon. However, if you only look for conjunctions of Jupiter and Saturn, these will happen every 20th year and should be, accordingly, of no extra significance or interest.

          Besides, be careful also with this, last mentioned, type of conjunction, because no ancient astronomer would ever mistake planetary conjunctions for a star (as many have otherwise suggested for the so-called "Star of Bethlehem"). And by the way, when determining the years of Jesus, most historians and chronologists calculate - erroneously - the Roman emperor Tiberus from the time of Augustus' death. But in fact, Tiberius was already emperor of the eastern (!) part of the Roman Empire from the year 4 AD - he was then Augustus' co-regent, and they are depicted together on Roman coins from that time. - Hoping that the information will be of some use, - thanks for your interest,

          Ove von Spaeth

In reference to my previous e-mail I wish to draw your attention to the now proven parallel between the astronomical event around Moses' birth in Egypt and the Star of Bethlehem around Jesus' birth. You write (correctly) there is a conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn about every 20th year. However, there is a conjunction of these two planets in Pisces about every 800 years and this "rarity" makes it a much more interesting phenomenon from the ancient astrological viewpoint, astrology being an extension of the practice of astronomy.
          For several reasons (described in my book), Matthew's Gospel is careful to describe the event that prompted the wise men to visit Bethlehem as an astronomical event, only the event was explained by the visiting astronomers-astrologers in astrological terms. This is the key to understanding the singular use of the word "star" by Matthew. It means the "Star Sign"  or  "Ascendant" (Jupiter in Pisces) at birth and there are certain valid grounds why Pisces, particularly in combination with Saturn, were considered by the wise men to be connected with Israel.
 
          Your research in relation to the Senmut astronomical event complements my decade research in relation to the hidden mathematical code in the prophecy of the "sevens" in chapter 9 of the Book of Daniel, which predicts the advent of the Messiah in the era of the Roman Empire. On the basis of the discovered code, I have been able to prove the chronology of Jesus, starting with his birth in 7/6 BC. All the mutually inclusive evidence of the chronology (date of birth, baptism and death) is in chapters 3-6 of my book with the proposed title IPSO FACTO (the facts about Jesus). I have found your research a welcome complement to my endeavour in having the results of my factual findings published.

Don Leichel, New Zealand - exalto@clear.net.nz  -  (29.Dec.2005)

::   OvS's reply.    As I stated last time: no astronomer of the ancient world would ever mistake a planet conjunction for a "star". I cannot follow you any longer on that road. Besides, the whole subject is not in the focus in my field of research.
          Don't try to make given facts fit into hypothesis - the whole operation should be done the other way around, of course. You should research much more - e.g. when did King Herod carried out his census? It took always place in connection with taxations. Herod is known for lowering the tax with 25 per cent in the year 14 BC. Around that time there was a Roman governor Saturnius in Syria (in Tyros) and he had the same name as another governor who was Quirinius' predecessor, approx. 10 years later. The Bible's New Testament can fully correctly(!) be translated so that its Greek text is pointing at either of them, i.e. two different pointers for a time fixation.
          The oldest Christian calendars (Ethiopian and Armenian) go back to approx. year 10 BC.

          Also Father of Church, Origen of Caesarea (185-254), states that the so-called "Bethlehem star" was not really a star, and he uses an expression from Egyptian-Greek astronomer Ptolemy in Alexandria while saying that it was not even a comet but something more like a nebula - and by this brings us close to the same description as used for Hipparchus' discovery of a nova (supernova). This was an appearance which in fact would be noted, so unusual as it was. The same goes for the biblical star observation in question. However, concerning the planet Jupiter and the constellation Pisces alluding to Israel, all this is a later speculation, a medieval concept having no support - not by even a single source from Antiquity. Besides, there was almost  never any country "Israel" (except in eras of David-Solomon era and of the Maccabees), but in the actual case being a Roman protectorate, Palestine, which not even covered quite the same geographic area as alleged in the scriptures.

         In my first mail to you, I gave you some clues - and for the present you get some more. If you won't receive them, there is nothing I can do. However, it is well-known that many fine explorations have been done by not following advice from others.
          From the library you could get a very ingenious and informative book written by a Norwegian friend of mine - and although I do not necessary have to agree in all detail of his special matter (e.g. the conjunction being a star), but still his valuable text is full of many interesting data:  Gustav Teres SJ: "The Bible and Astronomy. The Magi and the Star in the Gospel", 3rd. ed., (Springer) Berlin and Budapest, 1999. - Good luck, whatever you choose,

          Ove von Spaeth